2017 Glass Blown Open

[DiscJunkie]

When/If DG tourneys ever pay enough for more than a few people to make a living, then it will make sense to hold players over for tourneys after rain delays.
However, in the real world, the vast majority of Pros have a "day job", and requiring them to stay over for an extra day is not a reasonable option.
One other thing, don't assume these Pros don't work at their real jobs on Sundays, either.

 

[Orioles_Lefty]

I've never understood the need for a sport to legitimize itself as a "real", professional sport. Yet, if not the natural evolution of things, it's the most likely evolution when people are looking to "sell" and profit from the sport. I saw ultimate frisbee go through a similar process starting 8-10 years ago, though those attempts were likely merely the most recent attempts to make this professionalizing move for that sport. Part of such attempts is the need to capture new audiences, with those audiences coming from sports orientations other than the sport that is trying to professionalize. If the right people are captured and the money follows, then different models for the sport, including how to handle round cancellations, could be designed.

But, for now, a cancellation model that doesn't allow for Sunday or Monday play is where the sport is at. And that should be fine. The same could be said for the lack of cuts. An event like GBO is as much about if not more so about the massses than the elite. There's nothing wrong with a model of "we play whether permitting in the time permitting" except it doesn't fit a narrative that professional sports have to be played to completion, especially the big events.

When ultimate frisbee went "legit," they did away with self-officiating to a large degree. To be legit, the game needed referees like other sports had. You could come up with a whole list of criteria for professional sports and "make-up provisions" would be one.

It's worth noting that baseball has bought into a narrative that its professional appeal is suspect, so it is considering all kinds of ideas to make the game more appealing in the marketplace. People argue all the time if pro disc golfers actually move the needle on disc sales; at some level, professional disc golf exists to move discs and baskets and clothing and speciality gear that is becoming more and more specialized. Courses and coverage are also improving and becoming more specialized, but the sport, as a professional sport, is still in its infancy.

Edit to add: Attention to "statistics" also falls under the umbrella of criteria necessary for a sport to be professional. The disc golf stats do nothing for me, but that's because 1) I have other data sports I like such as baseball and 2) I don't watch disc golf caring about the stats.

 

[Allurex]

I'm so tired of people calling the courses here 'snoozefest hyzer courses'.

I'll happily play any of you guys at Jones East if that's how you feel.

 

[Halcón]

I'm so tired of people calling the courses here 'snoozefest hyzer courses'.

I'll happily play any of you guys at Jones East if that's how you feel.

Don't let it get to you. They're just jealous that they don't have the (arguably) best tournament in disc golf.

 

[brutalbrutus]

It is what it is. Bowling Green isn't exactly well known for having great courses either but they also host one of the biggest events every year.

 

[bnbanbury]

I've never understood the need for a sport to legitimize itself as a "real", professional sport. Yet, if not the natural evolution of things, it's the most likely evolution when people are looking to "sell" and profit from the sport. I saw ultimate frisbee go through a similar process starting 8-10 years ago, though those attempts were likely merely the most recent attempts to make this professionalizing move for that sport. Part of such attempts is the need to capture new audiences, with those audiences coming from sports orientations other than the sport that is trying to professionalize. If the right people are captured and the money follows, then different models for the sport, including how to handle round cancellations, could be designed.

But, for now, a cancellation model that doesn't allow for Sunday or Monday play is where the sport is at. And that should be fine. The same could be said for the lack of cuts. An event like GBO is as much about if not more so about the massses than the elite. There's nothing wrong with a model of "we play whether permitting in the time permitting" except it doesn't fit a narrative that professional sports have to be played to completion, especially the big events.

When ultimate frisbee went "legit," they did away with self-officiating to a large degree. To be legit, the game needed referees like other sports had. You could come up with a whole list of criteria for professional sports and "make-up provisions" would be one.

It's worth noting that baseball has bought into a narrative that its professional appeal is suspect, so it is considering all kinds of ideas to make the game more appealing in the marketplace. People argue all the time if pro disc golfers actually move the needle on disc sales; at some level, professional disc golf exists to move discs and baskets and clothing and speciality gear that is becoming more and more specialized. Courses and coverage are also improving and becoming more specialized, but the sport, as a professional sport, is still in its infancy.

Edit to add: Attention to "statistics" also falls under the umbrella of criteria necessary for a sport to be professional. The disc golf stats do nothing for me, but that's because 1) I have other data sports I like such as baseball and 2) I don't watch disc golf caring about the stats.

I agree with all the comments about cancellations. There are a number of things that would have to be accounted for in order to make this happen and I don't think that we are particularly close to being able to carry an event over into additional days.

I don't agree with the comparison to ultimate or many other sports. Officiating is going to remain largely up to the players, just as it largely still is even at the highest levels of traditional golf. I also don't think the trajectory is much like Ultimate. There is already more money in disc golf than there ever was in ultimate which makes sense: there is more product to move and more money to be made.

 

[Streets]

Don't let it get to you. They're just jealous that they don't have the (arguably) best tournament in disc golf.

What makes it the best?

 

[Muskiebite]

What makes it the best?

this is probably all subjective but

1. It's one of the largest events (Over 1,100 players)
2. Tons of extra events (C Tiers, Poker Parties, Block Parties, Bonfires)
3. 4 quality courses in town, 2 just outside of town (Not the longest, or toughest, or most wooded but they are well maintained, variety of challenges)
4. Uniform Baskets on all courses, Municipal being the only non Patriot baskets (Not sure what the opinion of Patriot Baskets are but atleast it's uniform)
5. The town really get's behind it, restaurant specials, bar events, local TV broadcasts

I haven't been to other big events like Bowling Green Ams or the Memorial but this is what I saw in my time at GBO

 

[_MTL_]

this is probably all subjective but

1. It's one of the largest events (Over 1,100 players)
2. Tons of extra events (C Tiers, Poker Parties, Block Parties, Bonfires)
3. 4 quality courses in town, 2 just outside of town (Not the longest, or toughest, or most wooded but they are well maintained, variety of challenges)
4. Uniform Baskets on all courses, Municipal being the only non Patriot baskets (Not sure what the opinion of Patriot Baskets are but atleast it's uniform)
5. The town really get's behind it, restaurant specials, bar events, local TV broadcasts

I haven't been to other big events like Bowling Green Ams or the Memorial but this is what I saw in my time at GBO

1 - 4 really are cool things, but not unique to the event.

Number 5 really is what Emporia does better than everyone. They are lucky to be in such a small town, but that to me is what this event is really known for.

 

[smarkquart]

this is probably all subjective but

1. It's one of the largest events (Over 1,100 players)
2. Tons of extra events (C Tiers, Poker Parties, Block Parties, Bonfires)
3. 4 quality courses in town, 2 just outside of town (Not the longest, or toughest, or most wooded but they are well maintained, variety of challenges)
4. Uniform Baskets on all courses, Municipal being the only non Patriot baskets (Not sure what the opinion of Patriot Baskets are but atleast it's uniform)
5. The town really get's behind it, restaurant specials, bar events, local TV broadcasts

I haven't been to other big events like Bowling Green Ams or the Memorial but this is what I saw in my time at GBO

It is stuff like this that is going to make it hard not to go next year.

This year I just did not have the time to take off. Next year I will save my days. The only issue I will have is lesson planning for taking a whole week off from teaching. That will be a nightmare, and likely I will be constantly checking in, but it sounds like it will be more than worth it.

 

[Rob Martin]

It is what it is. Bowling Green isn't exactly well known for having great courses either but they also host one of the biggest events every year.

Yep, I've played both. Was pretty disappointed in Bowling Green's broken small teepads and rusty baskets.

 

[Pwingles]

What makes it the best?

The atmosphere is incredible. The people in Emporia are all very hospitable and excited to have people there. The event itself is very well run and organized. The courses are decent, between them all, there is a good variety of different shots and hole types. Even though they arent all 5 star courses, the central location of everything (everything, not just the courses) makes it very convenient to get around town or to your course. The town is very easy to navigate, in most situations, depending on where you stay, you never have to travel more than 5-10 thru town to get to your course. Olpe is the farthest and its a 10-15 min drive for most.

My only gripes are actually with some parts of the courses, nothing really to do with the tournament itself.

- Municipal sucks
- Jones East is backup city from holes 5-9. Not even sure how to fix it, but a couple years ago on hole 7, we had a 3 card, 45 min backup, it was miserable.
- Olpe is raw still, not really a negative as more play will help with positive changes.
- I really, really loath the change to ECC hole 1 that they did last year.

 

[lyleoross]

I've never understood the need for a sport to legitimize itself as a "real", professional sport. Yet, if not the natural evolution of things, it's the most likely evolution when people are looking to "sell" and profit from the sport. I saw ultimate frisbee go through a similar process starting 8-10 years ago, though those attempts were likely merely the most recent attempts to make this professionalizing move for that sport. Part of such attempts is the need to capture new audiences, with those audiences coming from sports orientations other than the sport that is trying to professionalize. If the right people are captured and the money follows, then different models for the sport, including how to handle round cancellations, could be designed.

But, for now, a cancellation model that doesn't allow for Sunday or Monday play is where the sport is at. And that should be fine. The same could be said for the lack of cuts. An event like GBO is as much about if not more so about the massses than the elite. There's nothing wrong with a model of "we play whether permitting in the time permitting" except it doesn't fit a narrative that professional sports have to be played to completion, especially the big events.

When ultimate frisbee went "legit," they did away with self-officiating to a large degree. To be legit, the game needed referees like other sports had. You could come up with a whole list of criteria for professional sports and "make-up provisions" would be one.

It's worth noting that baseball has bought into a narrative that its professional appeal is suspect, so it is considering all kinds of ideas to make the game more appealing in the marketplace. People argue all the time if pro disc golfers actually move the needle on disc sales; at some level, professional disc golf exists to move discs and baskets and clothing and speciality gear that is becoming more and more specialized. Courses and coverage are also improving and becoming more specialized, but the sport, as a professional sport, is still in its infancy.

Edit to add: Attention to "statistics" also falls under the umbrella of criteria necessary for a sport to be professional. The disc golf stats do nothing for me, but that's because 1) I have other data sports I like such as baseball and 2) I don't watch disc golf caring about the stats.

One of the driving forces here is that going back seven or eight years ago, the PDGA did customer surveys. By a substantial margin, members voted for one of the PDGAs core missions to be, "grow the Pro game." That answer was consistent even amongst am players (everyone wants to be a pro).

Thanks for your cogent comments on the topic.

 

[lyleoross]

Emporia - I confess that Worlds dissapointed me in terms of the courses. Therefore, I was pleased at the modifications I saw that clearly made the two rounds played, much more competitive and exciting. It's possibly I missed something at Worlds, but I was impressed enough this weekend.

 

[Beable]

The event looked great from the coverage I watched. I thought the Olpe course looked brutal. It seemed perfect for pro play. I would lose many discs there.

If I had to criticize one thing, it'd be that Jones East seemed to not create a lot of separation of scores among the pro women. I may be wrong about that, but it seemed like there weren't many birdie opportunities.

I watched youtube rounds from Jomez and CCDG, really great content. Thank you guys.

 

[SD86]

I watched youtube rounds from Jomez and CCDG, really great content. Thank you guys.

This. The coverage and the commentary was awesome, as always. And it's the "as always" that makes us get used to it, so we should remember to be grateful for the high quality coverage we have.

 

[Nova P]

- Jones East is backup city from holes 5-9. Not even sure how to fix it, but a couple years ago on hole 7, we had a 3 card, 45 min backup, it was miserable.

There's a few problems that need to be sorted on this stretch.

Jones East 5 is parallel to hole 10 from the adjacent Jones West, so often there's a lot of time spent waiting for one or the other group to throw, to avoid distracting each other.

The teepad for 8 is sitting right in a good lay-up spot to approach the island on 7, so often a player on 7 is left standing there scratching her butt waiting for the group on 8 to tee off and get out of the way.

The teepad for 9 is adjacent to Jones West. . . 12, I think. (They renumbered them and I am too lazy to go get my caddy book. You know the one on West, little putter throw at a basket next to a Cedar.) Again, people standing around waiting on each other to get out of the way.

 

[Royalhghnss]

The atmosphere is incredible. The people in Emporia are all very hospitable and excited to have people there. The event itself is very well run and organized. The courses are decent, between them all, there is a good variety of different shots and hole types. Even though they arent all 5 star courses, the central location of everything (everything, not just the courses) makes it very convenient to get around town or to your course. The town is very easy to navigate, in most situations, depending on where you stay, you never have to travel more than 5-10 thru town to get to your course. Olpe is the farthest and its a 10-15 min drive for most.

My only gripes are actually with some parts of the courses, nothing really to do with the tournament itself.

- Municipal sucks
- Jones East is backup city from holes 5-9. Not even sure how to fix it, but a couple years ago on hole 7, we had a 3 card, 45 min backup, it was miserable.
- Olpe is raw still, not really a negative as more play will help with positive changes.
- I really, really loath the change to ECC hole 1 that they did last year.

Jones East actually played amazing when I filmed it Friday. There were maybe 2, 1 card backups? Way better than last year.

What do you mean by Olpe being raw? The infrastructure was amazing there! So well maintained. I was seriously impressed by all the little things they've done. My only criticism would be the rock greens on a couple holes.

The event looked great from the coverage I watched. I thought the Olpe course looked brutal. It seemed perfect for pro play. I would lose many discs there.

If I had to criticize one thing, it'd be that Jones East seemed to not create a lot of separation of scores among the pro women. I may be wrong about that, but it seemed like there weren't many birdie opportunities.

I watched youtube rounds from Jomez and CCDG, really great content. Thank you guys.

This. The coverage and the commentary was awesome, as always. And it's the "as always" that makes us get used to it, so we should remember to be grateful for the high quality coverage we have.

Thanks guys! I'm so proud of what the team did this week. I feel like our round 2 videos are the best we've ever put out. I love how Cory added the slow mo before and then behind the scores, then the scores transition into the drone footage.

 

[armiller]

Regardless of whether scores were called birdies or not, here is how the holes performed in terms of sorting players by skill.

Up, Right, and Big are "good".

Hey Steve, wasn't really sure where to ask this... I'm just trying to understand your graphics a little better. Specifically, what part corresponds to the ability of a hole to help better players get to the top? Is that the y-axis? Or the circle size?

As always, thanks for doing this.

 

[Steve West]

Hey Steve, wasn't really sure where to ask this... I'm just trying to understand your graphics a little better. Specifically, what part corresponds to the ability of a hole to help better players get to the top? Is that the y-axis? Or the circle size?

As always, thanks for doing this.

All three do that in a way.

The vertical axis shows how well the hole sorted the scores it gave out - relative to all possible ways of sorting the scores.

The horizontal axis shows how many different scores the hole gave out.

The size of the circle shows how much the hole contributed to the whole course's ability to give different players different total scores (reducing the number of ties).