2018 Competition Rules Changes

[_MTL_]

Up here in the northeast a LOT of TDs simply hand you a slip of paper as 'funny money' redeemable at a brick & mortar store near by (b&m has no web presence and the td has no merchandise at the event). Per the letter of the law here (1.10E4...either merchandise vended there/then or 'on-line' merch) this now won't be an option. Unless there is some wiggle room here, this 'mandate' is bad.
If true, the TD had better disclose such stuff via the event flyer / signup, etc.

I get that it's not being shady or anything from the event perspective, but if a B&M store is doing the payout and making that revenue, I don't think it's too hard to bring a pop up tent and a few folding tables to the event.

 

[Horsman]

Up here in the northeast a LOT of TDs simply hand you a slip of paper as 'funny money' redeemable at a brick & mortar store near by (b&m has no web presence and the td has no merchandise at the event). Per the letter of the law here (1.10E4...either merchandise vended there/then or 'on-line' merch) this now won't be an option. Unless there is some wiggle room here, this 'mandate' is bad.
If true, the TD had better disclose such stuff via the event flyer / signup, etc.

Seems like you could make it known that "said shops retail location" is a part of the "event"

 

[_MTL_]

There have been instances where a TD says "ooops, shipment delayed, sorry don't have payout at the event" and then the players leave town and never get it. I think it's just clarifying if you don't have an option at the event / part of the event / B&M situation, you MUST have an online store option. Which is very fair.

 

[JC17393]

- Being a Certified Official does NOT make an individual a Tournament Official who can make rulings at PDGA events.

- The Tournament Director may empower volunteers to act as spotters for a
specific spotting purpose, but the ruling of a spotter does NOT supersede the
ruling of the group.

Good clarifications. A lot of the time, people think "I'm an official" but that doesn't give them the right to make calls.

The spotter thing was already in the CM. And the certified official not being a tournament official was also a thing, but not as clearly stated as it is in the new CM. I agree that both are good things to be clear about.

- A player must properly identify themselves by name and PDGA number when competing in a PDGA-sanctioned event. Players who wish to remain anonymous
or who assume a false identity will be disqualified from the event and face
potential suspension from the PDGA tour.

This is good. Nicknames are fun, but not professional.

This also was something already present in the CM. However, the key and very important new addition is specifying that identifying oneself involves giving both name AND PDGA number. Sure, nicknames are a pain but my experience as a TD has been that lack of a PDGA number with registration is the more common occurrence, particularly for lapsed members. While I've always thought not submitting one's number was a form of playing "anonymously", there was enough wiggle room in the vaguely written rule to make it difficult to enforce. This closes that loophole. A loophole some players could have been using to manipulate their rating or to get around their rating stopping them from playing a restricted division.

 

[_MTL_]

Good points, as usual!

 

[JC17393]

Most of the updates aren't changes, rather clarifications.

I'm aware of that. But there's been no mention of the trophy-only entry fee option at all. Not that it's necessarily been overlooked by the PDGA but as it isn't a change or clarification, it hasn't been highlighted by anything they've published regarding the new rule book and competition manual. That's the only reason I bring it up here.

 

[brutalbrutus]

This is just dumb. I wonder who the whiney pro(s), that complained about this enough to warrant a change, are?...Some guy who was just outside the cash line and was mad he didn't get cash when the guy one spot above was an AM and got some merch. This reeks of finding a solution to a problem that doesn't exist...

On top of that, it adds more work to the job of being a TD. Like they don't have enough on their plate already, now they have to deal with pissed off people who only play a couple events a year, and maybe don't follow this stuff the way we do.

Is this a "The PDGA needs more money" problem? Or maybe the PDGA wants more advertising dollars, so this is their way to get more people to join/renew? Did the PDGA get sued by a non-member injured at an event?

I would really like to see Chuck respond to this thread and enlighten us on why this was done...

 

[_MTL_]

From what I was told...

PDGA feels pros should be current (Agreed). So when I asked "why just dont you require someone playing pro to be current" the answer I got was "if you want to test the waters of pro as an amateur, this allows you to do it while still having the ability to be an amatuer and not be current. There is no way to determine if a player can cash before the event starts."

 

[brutalbrutus]

From what I was told...

PDGA feels pros should be current (Agreed). So when I asked "why just dont you require someone playing pro to be current" the answer I got was "if you want to test the waters of pro as an amateur, this allows you to do it while still having the ability to be an amatuer and not be current. There is no way to determine if a player can cash before the event starts."

Sidestepping a direct question 101...

 

[brutalbrutus]

This is just dumb. I wonder who the whiney pro(s), that complained about this enough to warrant a change, are?...Some guy who was just outside the cash line and was mad he didn't get cash when the guy one spot above was an AM and got some merch. This reeks of finding a solution to a problem that doesn't exist...

On top of that, it adds more work to the job of being a TD. Like they don't have enough on their plate already, now they have to deal with pissed off people who only play a couple events a year, and maybe don't follow this stuff the way we do.

Is this a "The PDGA needs more money" problem? Or maybe the PDGA wants more advertising dollars, so this is their way to get more people to join/renew? Did the PDGA get sued by a non-member injured at an event?

I would really like to see Chuck respond to this thread and enlighten us on why this was done...

Or maybe some DB was mad that the TD got to pocket some extra cash by giving the AMs merch...

 

[JC17393]

Here's the thing...this passing cash down rather than paying out in merch is how it used to work. It's not new. Paying out in merch in lieu of cash added more work to the TD's plate. Going back to a flat decline and pass it down is EASIER for TDs.

And before the argument comes that it isn't that hard to pay merch, consider that there are such things as Pro-only tournaments. And in large part, where we most commonly have amateurs playing a pro division is at Pro-only events where there is no amateur division to choose. TDs at pro events generally don't have merch available to pay out with. Or a vendor lined up to use for a voucher payout.

Then with pro-am tournaments, there are still True Amateur events where, again, there may be no merch or vendors on hand to do payouts because there is no expectation of merch payouts at all. TDs at those events might have a left over player pack or two, but they're not likely to have much else to choose from for a merch payout, if they even have enough to cover the amount being converted.

From a TD perspective, passing declined cash down is way simpler to deal with than providing merch in lieu of cash. If I were to guess, this was a move driven by TDs more than by players.

 

[_MTL_]

If someone plays the Masters as am and makes the cut, they don't leave with 40K in golf balls.

Saying that, I was actually a fan of this rule - this effect will be felt at very small events and will create smaller divisions.

 

[brutalbrutus]

Well if they just wanted to "make it easier" on TDs, then just go back to the "old way". Adding the forced membership adds more paperwork to the TDs plate...

Also, they could have made this a rule for "Pro Only" events. Local Ctiers are gonna turn into a cluster****...

 

[JC17393]

Well if they just wanted to "make it easier" on TDs, then just go back to the "old way". Adding the forced membership adds more paperwork to the TDs plate...

I don't think it does. At least not for a TD who is already well prepared.

First, TDs have always had the responsibility of collecting new and renewing memberships at their tournaments. For a lot of years, TDs running early season events ended up taking in nearly as much in membership fees as entry fees. So the notion of sending in a membership fee or two for a cashing pro isn't that big of a deal.

As for dealing with who is current and who is not, that's also something the TD is responsible for already in collection the $10 fees. No extra work there.

The payouts and sorting out who gets a membership with or in lieu of their payout is also fairly easy if you're prepared. When sorting the actual cash to be paid out, make sure each envelope has at least one $5 bill and a few $20s. When a non-member cashes, go in the envelope and remove the $65 (the $10 they paid as a non-member is credited to the player's membership instead). If it's an amateur turning pro, you go in the envelope and pull $25. Easy.

As for collecting info for the PDGA membership (name, address, birthday, contact info, etc)...collect it from everyone during registration. Alternatively, have some membership sign up forms on hand and give them to the cashing pros who need them, perhaps in lieu of their payout envelope. They give you the filled out form, you hand them their money (less the membership fee).

Really, this isn't a make or break amount of work for a diligent TD. It should be barely a blip to them.

 

[bwgort]

I don't think it does. At least not for a TD who is already well prepared.

First, TDs have always had the responsibility of collecting new and renewing memberships at their tournaments. For a lot of years, TDs running early season events ended up taking in nearly as much in membership fees as entry fees. So the notion of sending in a membership fee or two for a cashing pro isn't that big of a deal.

As for dealing with who is current and who is not, that's also something the TD is responsible for already in collection the $10 fees. No extra work there.

The payouts and sorting out who gets a membership with or in lieu of their payout is also fairly easy if you're prepared. When sorting the actual cash to be paid out, make sure each envelope has at least one $5 bill and a few $20s. When a non-member cashes, go in the envelope and remove the $65 (the $10 they paid as a non-member is credited to the player's membership instead). If it's an amateur turning pro, you go in the envelope and pull $25. Easy.

As for collecting info for the PDGA membership (name, address, birthday, contact info, etc)...collect it from everyone during registration. Alternatively, have some membership sign up forms on hand and give them to the cashing pros who need them, perhaps in lieu of their payout envelope. They give you the filled out form, you hand them their money (less the membership fee).

Really, this isn't a make or break amount of work for a diligent TD. It should be barely a blip to them.

It's forcing a TD to be a collection agent for the PDGA after the player has won the money. It's a big difference from collecting 10 bucks from a player before the event. If the PDGA wanted pros to be current, they should have required it instead of putting the onus on the TD to strip the player of payout they earned. It's a bad rule that forces TDs to do the PDGA's dirty work.

 

[AByrd]

What's good for the goose....

Not sure if this has been covered, but here goes:

2.04 Pros Playing Am / Ams Playing Pro
A. Professionals may compete in Amateur divisions offered at PDGA A, B, and
C Tier events, for which they qualify based on player rating, age, and gender
as detailed in the PROS PLAYING AM section of the Divisions, Ratings,
Points Factors table.

So..an amateur may play in a pro division, but cannot accept cash or merchandise in lieu of cash.

Can the pro playing in an amateur division accept merchandise?

Not sure if the geese and ganders are on the same page with this update of the competition manual.

 

[brutalbrutus]

^That's a good point. If they are gonna limit AMs to cash or nothing, then Pros should not be allowed to accept payout in AM divisions...

 

[JC17393]

It's forcing a TD to be a collection agent for the PDGA after the player has won the money. It's a big difference from collecting 10 bucks from a player before the event. If the PDGA wanted pros to be current, they should have required it instead of putting the onus on the TD to strip the player of payout they earned. It's a bad rule that forces TDs to do the PDGA's dirty work.

TDs have ALWAYS been a collection agent for the PDGA. This is nothing new and not really much of an argument against the rule. It may be a bad rule, but the TD burden angle is not the way to make that argument, IMO.

 

[bwgort]

TDs have ALWAYS been a collection agent for the PDGA. This is nothing new and not really much of an argument against the rule. It may be a bad rule, but the TD burden angle is not the way to make that argument, IMO.

When has the TD been required to take money from player's payout?

 

[JC17393]

^That's a good point. If they are gonna limit AMs to cash or nothing, then Pros should not be allowed to accept payout in AM divisions...

Pros aren't going to be turning Am if they accept prizes, though. If you want a reward of value for placing well in a pro division, it is cash, period. Take it and turn pro or decline it to stay am. It's a binary decision rather than a layered decision based on the form of compensation.

To me, if you want to argue that ams deserve merch in lieu of cash in a pro division, then pros should be able to take cash in lieu of merch in an am division.