2018 DGPT Jonesboro Open

[ToddL]

What's the rule violation? Not saying there isn't one, I'm just clueless.

813.02 A player must not use any device that directly assists in making a throw. Devices that reduce or control abrasion to the skin (such as gloves, tape, bandages, or gauze) and medical items (such as knee or ankle braces) are allowed. Placing an object as a directional aid is not allowed. An item such as a towel or a pad may be placed on the lie as long as it is not greater than one centimeter in thickness when compressed.

Did the umbrella directly assist him in making the throw? Pretty obviously not.

If the umbrella was touching the ground in front of the lie, it could have been a stance violation.

 

[Cgkdisc]

I think this is what you're looking for:
QA-STA-2: Can I hold onto a branch or other object behind my lie while putting?
Holding on to something behind your lie for support is not prohibited by the rules, provided that the object is in-bounds. It also must not be moved, since you are required to take the stance that results in the least possible movement of obstacles on the course. You are not allowed to hold onto another person for support, as that person is not part of the course.

 

[BrotherDave]

I dunno guys. That umbrella might reduce abrasion from wind to the skin of his palms. :\

 

[lyleoross]

Using umbrella as supporting point.

813.02 Illegal Device

A. A player must not use any device that directly assists in making a throw. Devices that reduce or control abrasion to the skin (such as gloves, tape, bandages, or gauze) and medical items (such as knee or ankle braces) are allowed.

C. A player receives two penalty throws if observed at any time during a round to be using an illegal device. A player who repeatedly uses an illegal device may be subject to disqualification in accordance with Section 3.03 of the PDGA Competition Manual.

While I technically agree, I'm not sure that a review by the rules committee would come down against him.

Thanks Sidewinder.

 

[lyleoross]

BTW - good catch Sidewinder, while I never participated, the old Rules Nazi discussions were highly informative.

 

[sidewinder22]

I think this is what you're looking for:
QA-STA-2: Can I hold onto a branch or other object behind my lie while putting?
Holding on to something behind your lie for support is not prohibited by the rules, provided that the object is in-bounds. It also must not be moved, since you are required to take the stance that results in the least possible movement of obstacles on the course. You are not allowed to hold onto another person for support, as that person is not part of the course.

A tree is not a device, it's part of the course.
An umbrella is not part of the course, it's a device.

 

[sidewinder22]

813.02 A player must not use any device that directly assists in making a throw. Devices that reduce or control abrasion to the skin (such as gloves, tape, bandages, or gauze) and medical items (such as knee or ankle braces) are allowed. Placing an object as a directional aid is not allowed. An item such as a towel or a pad may be placed on the lie as long as it is not greater than one centimeter in thickness when compressed.

Did the umbrella directly assist him in making the throw? Pretty obviously not.

If the umbrella was touching the ground in front of the lie, it could have been a stance violation.

Any supporting point directly assists in the throw. Doesn't matter where it is.

 

[brutalbrutus]

Ricky does this kind of thing all the time with his Delta... and sometimes its questionable whether it is completely behind the lie...

 

[lyleoross]

Ricky does this kind of thing all the time with his Delta... and sometimes its questionable whether it is completely behind the lie...

I know it, Paul is better...

 

[Cgkdisc]

A tree is not a device, it's part of the course.
An umbrella is not part of the course, it's a device.

The umbrella is a supporting object that will be moved by holding onto it. So you were correct in the assessment it was illegal but based on a different rule than artificial device. It's been consistent for years that holding on to anything behind your lie, that is a movable support, while making your throw is not allowed which includes a person supporting you or holding your hand on a steep bank. If you are holding onto or leaning on a large, immovable trunk behind your lie, that is okay. If it's a one inch diameter "bendy" trunk, then no go. Holding onto a cart while putting should be a violation even if its behind your lie.

 

[robdeforge]

https://youtu.be/j3rFbtW1ZzY?t=6240

am I wrong in saying that, no matter what the area Kevin landed in is designated, he played it wrong?

 

[Cgkdisc]

I watched it yesterday and thought he was likely too far back but the camera didn't show the stance upon release and no one called it.

 

[brutalbrutus]

Yea it looked like the group basically gave him a "free drop" cause they didn't want to make him stand in a sinkhole...

 

[lyleoross]

Yea it looked like the group basically gave him a "free drop" cause they didn't want to make him stand in a sinkhole...

I haven't looked at the rules in a bit, but the lie was "unsafe" doesn't that get relief?

 

[Cgkdisc]

I suppose you could get casual relief if a snake was sighted in there. Maybe a new pro tip is to carry a small rubber snake in your pocket, place it near your disc and jump back in surprise.

 

[robdeforge]

I haven't looked at the rules in a bit, but the lie was "unsafe" doesn't that get relief?

A player may obtain relief from the following obstacles that are on or behind the lie: motor vehicles, harmful insects or animals, people, or any item or area as designated by the Director. To obtain relief, the player may mark a new lie that is on the line of play, farther from the target, at the nearest point that provides relief.

so if the TD designated the area, which it sounds like they should have, no harm no foul. although he definitely should have marked his new lie in any case - he is a few feet behind his disc when he throws.

 

[brutalbrutus]

Not sure if the TD has to announce things like that or if the group can just make the decision themselves...Chuck?...


^ ^^ the rare and dreaded double snipe...:clap:

 

[Cgkdisc]

I haven't looked at the rules in a bit, but the lie was "unsafe" doesn't that get relief?

If his disc went into a hole in the side of that hill where it was under the lip of that abutment, he could have marked the lie on top. But I'm not sure that would have been an easier lie to play.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Not sure if the TD has to announce things like that or if the group can just make the decision themselves...Chuck?...


^ ^^ the rare and dreaded double snipe...:clap:

If it's a general area that is supposed provide casual relief, then the TD should have identified its boundaries or marked them as part of the hole rules. Otherwise, players can determine piles of dead branches, animal dens or wasp nests that qualify for relief.

 

[robdeforge]

If it's a general area that is supposed provide casual relief, then the TD should have identified its boundaries or marked them as part of the hole rules. Otherwise, players can determine piles of dead branches, animal dens or wasp nests that qualify for relief.

motor vehicles, harmful insects or animals, people, or any item or area as designated by the Director.

which category does "piles of dead branches" fit into?