brutalbrutus
* Ace Member *
They will be doing live "look ins" on the jomez crews.
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2018 USDGC
- Thread starter tom12003
- Start date
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Traditional? It seems like it was just last week that there was any kind of footage at all, and about 14 minutes ago that you could even hope for live coverage.
It's way too soon to fossilize "because that's how it's always been done".
lazy cake
Bogey Member
It looks like holes 9-12, the island green of 13, and 17 will be stroke and distance. Did I miss any?
Please correct me if I'm wrong but most of these have been stroke and distance for the past few USDGCs.
6, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13 and 17 have drop zone or previous lie restrictions, and you're right, most of them were already using those restrictions in years past.
And it's not out of trying to be punitive, it's out of trying to be fair. Last in-bounds is a lot of guesswork. Rather than guess if a disc crossed any part of the air-space over an in-bounds area (particularly an island) then guess where exactly it crossed out of it, situations that can be abused by forceful players imposing their will on players less inclined to argue, just give everyone the same spot to play from (DZ) or let players play from a known lie (the previous one).
ALL OB should be played this way, IMO.
Cgkdisc
.:Hall of Fame Member:.
Definitely punitive and not necessarily "fair". Players who "skillfully" landed initially on or flew over the island get the same penalty as someone who didn't throw far enough or missed completely. DZs for missing island greens should be close enough to the pin (10.1m) where a player has a putter's chance to save a double penalty on a single throwing error by getting a chance to demonstrate putting skill.
I find that a DZ or previous lie punishing a player who "skillfully" rolled/skipped off or flew over the island completely the same as someone who didn't get to the island at all to be a feature, not a bug. Landing OB is landing OB. How you get there should be irrelevant, IMO.
I do agree that the DZ, particularly in the case of an island green, should give the player a chance to recover with a putt of reasonable length. I'd call reasonable between 10 and 15 meters, depending on the expected skill level of the field (USDGC-level vs typical local C-tier level). I don't want it too far away so that it's an automatic four on a short island green hole, but I don't want it too close that it is an automatic three either. For example, at USDGC, a 10.1 meter drop zone would be what I'd call in the automatic three range. Which is probably why hole 17 requires three OB shots before one can advance to the DZ.
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I think you over-estimate putting ability*. Using the data from Pro Worlds final round (whose players had a higher average rating than the field at USDGC), less than half of the players would make a putt from 10 meters, and about 20% would make it from 15 meters.
*Everybody does, as you will soon see from the responses to this post.
Halcón
Free At Last
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Translation: "The coverage is going to suck."
Streets
* Ace Member *
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Im going to shoot better than 30 over par, per round. Bag it!
lyleoross
* Ace Member *
Some thoughts on coverage. If you look at the views of major events on YouTube over the last three years, they've gone from the 30,000 hits up to 100,000 pretty fast. Vids that have staying power (canned things of majors) go even higher. The value in marketing there is very clear. Innova has always been a captive control kind of company. They want to control as much as they can. That's their business model and it isn't surprising that they want to extend it into any video coverage of any event they control. Such an approach flat out precludes the use of Smash for live coverage, period. Even Jomez only works because Jomez will use Innova Pros as their commentators.
Now, there is nothing wrong with that approach, it's their baby, their dime. If folks want something different, they need to do it with their clicks. What Innova is capitalizing on, again smartly, is the work done by Smash, Jomez, and CCDG. Those guys did the legwork and have made video pay, whereas Innova's efforts have yielded mixed results (can you say bad vision?).
The Innova model is very similar to that of Microsoft, you don't have to be the best, you let someone else take the risk, then you buy them as cheaply as possible or you undermine them using your size to build a lesser product and then running them out. Similar to using the cachet of a prestige event, where you've blown the live coverage, to capture eyes that are interested in prestigious events.
Again, all of this is good business, even if it might possibly be bad for the viewing audience. In business, few companies learn the lesson, do what you do well and stick to that. Innova is good at making discs, really good. They are good at expanding markets, really good. They are good at capturing pro players, and they are good at marketing via video. They are even good at video synopses of events. They are bad at live commentary and fairly bad at canned commentary, and they should consider hiring folks that are better at it than they are. However, the reason it happens is a good reason. They are loyal to in-house guys and always will be. It's hard for me to hate on them too much.
I will watch some of this, but unless there has been a serious jump in commentary skills, I don't think it will hold my attention. I admire Avery and Jamie, their loyalty and passion are clear, but that isn't enough. I think JVP is correct. It is an interesting attempt. Curious to watch.
Now, there is nothing wrong with that approach, it's their baby, their dime. If folks want something different, they need to do it with their clicks. What Innova is capitalizing on, again smartly, is the work done by Smash, Jomez, and CCDG. Those guys did the legwork and have made video pay, whereas Innova's efforts have yielded mixed results (can you say bad vision?).
The Innova model is very similar to that of Microsoft, you don't have to be the best, you let someone else take the risk, then you buy them as cheaply as possible or you undermine them using your size to build a lesser product and then running them out. Similar to using the cachet of a prestige event, where you've blown the live coverage, to capture eyes that are interested in prestigious events.
Again, all of this is good business, even if it might possibly be bad for the viewing audience. In business, few companies learn the lesson, do what you do well and stick to that. Innova is good at making discs, really good. They are good at expanding markets, really good. They are good at capturing pro players, and they are good at marketing via video. They are even good at video synopses of events. They are bad at live commentary and fairly bad at canned commentary, and they should consider hiring folks that are better at it than they are. However, the reason it happens is a good reason. They are loyal to in-house guys and always will be. It's hard for me to hate on them too much.
I will watch some of this, but unless there has been a serious jump in commentary skills, I don't think it will hold my attention. I admire Avery and Jamie, their loyalty and passion are clear, but that isn't enough. I think JVP is correct. It is an interesting attempt. Curious to watch.
frasnow
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brutalbrutus
* Ace Member *
PaigeP with a 1400 rated round...
DinosaurThunder
Double Eagle Member
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The last traditional live coverage (one or two cameras following the lead card) of USDGC was in 2015. And since 2015 we have seen our sport take off from a membership standpoint and interaction level with live streaming. I would guess the majority of the live audience started following the pro scene seriously the past 3-4 years (could be wrong). We are lucky to have been around the sport as long as we have - I'm assuming you have been playing for over 20 years? I hit the 23 year mark on the 11th of this month and am thankful I started at age 7. And while I recognize the years we have had live coverage is insignificant compared to total years this sport has been around or you have been playing. I still think we need to cater to the "norm" and the bench set for our newer and growing population.
"There are risks. It's a complex plan, and the lack of emphasis on hole-by-hole coverage could be a negative for die-hard fans. "
Sounds like it's going to be a banter fest, nothing more than commenting on udisc live with a few highlights thrown in and the occasional live shot. Jomez might be the big winner here with full post production coverage.
Sounds like it's going to be a banter fest, nothing more than commenting on udisc live with a few highlights thrown in and the occasional live shot. Jomez might be the big winner here with full post production coverage.
JNichols
Smelling the Shame
Ultidisc said on their Facebook page that Jomez is doing day after coverage.
JNichols
Smelling the Shame
PaigeP with a 1400 rated round...
Wish I was good enough to complete a par 70 course in 6 throws and come in -64. Still only a 1452 rated round? Lol
This should have been done already by Smash, Jomez, and CCDG collectively instead of focusing their efforts individually on next day coverage for 2+ cards.
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