320-330ft. cant get past this...

[Triflusal]

also, paging bergdawg to this thread

 

[Goon13]

Tough debate

I have seen only one good chart (http://www.aracnet.com/~stuart/disc_content.htm) that shows the relationship between disc speed and distance. While there are disc golfers that can throw 400 + ft with slower arm speed, the majority of long throwers have strong arms (60 mph and higher). If you are blessed with a strong arm, then the path to 400+ ft is easier. Those of us mortals with average arm strength must hone our form and select the right disc. I think the key for each person who desires maximum distance is to assess how strong of arm they possess and then work to sharpen their form to get there.

I have an average arm, so my path involves using a less stable high speed driver (1/4 K II, Katana, Bolt) and getting the disc to glide out as far as I can. No laser beam drives in my future.

 

[garublador]

While there are disc golfers that can throw 400 + ft with slower arm speed, the majority of long throwers have strong arms (60 mph and higher).

If you think arm strength is the differentiator between those throwing slower discs 400' and those that can't you'll probably never be one of the guys that can do it. Once you realize it's about timing, not speed or strength you'll stand a chance.

The difference is utilizing your wrist as another lever. Most don't. Those that throw really far do.

 

[jtreadwell]

The key is lots and lots of 'roids :wall::wall::wall: HULK SMASH!!!

 

[Uncle Dougie]

I think most people can and should be able to hit the 350' mark after a year of playing. If you're not, it has to do with form and disc selection. If you can only hit or max 330' after 10 to 20 years of playing this game then form or stubborness to learn better form is the culprit. My .02

 

[811rv]

Combination of launch speed and disc's spin (RPM) will determine how far disc will go, all else equal.

I am not sure what is my launch speed, perhaps 40 mph or so. I have radar gun and I need to check out myself. It is the spin that I need the most work on. The more spin, the farther the disc will go (assume it is right disc for a given launch speed and spin RPM). I was working with Blake T one day last May in Minnesota and I finally had a great snap (aka hit) and wow the disc went much further.

But since then I don't have strong snap (I can feel my disc still slip thus less spin) and I seem to max out around 300 or so.

Ladies in recent long distance comp at Pro Worlds threw 423 feet (Piage and Reading) and I am guessing that their launch speed is around 50 mph? But it is the strong snap (more spin) that certainly helped their disc to go further. And get strong snap requires good timing (slow in, fast out)
along with strong grip. Since I am 48 years old male and I am 5' 10" 150 lbs so it is kinda of good comparison between me and those top ladies. I would be very happy to throw 375 or so consistently.

I believe my problems are that I need to improve my grip to make it stronger (hammer drills et al)
and work on improve timing especially in "fast out" part. I can feel that my body don't generate much power in "fast out" part. It is new for my body to learn (and trying to unlearn those bad habits). Like one said, it is hard part to learn to improve timing that maximize full potential of body (leg, hip, shoulder) to generate more speed in "fast out" part. Only way to improve is to bring stack of similar discs (preferable putter/mids) to the field and focus on improving that area and keep doing that at regular basis until it becomes automatic.

I watch Golf Channel all the time (when I am front of my computer as I have TV next to it) and I see they have way to measure the ball spin. Any idea for low cost way to measure the disc spin at launch? I think the best way to measure spin is using high speed camera and it can capture disc spin clearly so we can figure out the RPM. Which high speed camera would work well for disc? There are newer digital cameras that can capture video at 60 FPS, 120 FPS even 420 FPS, would that work well?
Any other ideas to measure disc's RPM other than high speed camera?

Once we know thrower's launch speed and disc RPM, then we can find right driver disc for that thrower easier and quickly.

You know we have flight charts out from disc mfgs, they should add that flight is based on given launch speed and disc's RPM (with correct nose angle and side angle (anhyzer, flat or hyzer).

 

[grodney]

Any idea for low cost way to measure the disc spin at launch? I think the best way to measure spin is using high speed camera and it can capture disc spin clearly so we can figure out the RPM. Which high speed camera would work well for disc? There are newer digital cameras that can capture video at 60 FPS, 120 FPS even 420 FPS, would that work well?

I've done it by drawing a big black mark on a frisbee and using my old digital video camera at 30fps. Certainly a 60fps camera would seem to be fine for golf disc throws, based on research I have cited here:
http://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28603

I would think you could just mark a disc, and then film from above ("above" enough to see the flight plate markings clearly) for long enough to capture a couple revolutions so you can do the math on the frames.

 

[Goon13]

If you think arm strength is the differentiator between those throwing slower discs 400' and those that can't you'll probably never be one of the guys that can do it. Once you realize it's about timing, not speed or strength you'll stand a chance.

The difference is utilizing your wrist as another lever. Most don't. Those that throw really far do.

Sorry - you missed my point. I was trying to show that form is ultra critical for those throwing slower than 60 mph. Those blessed with a strong arm can usually use brute force to compensate for poor form.

As for me, I am completely focused on my technique from the elbow down. Angle of disc at release (nose down and HF) and the snap of the wrist. I was able to push past the 330ft barrier by focusing on those two areas.

 

[dkoz]

My form isnt the greatest, I relized that I need to work on the " lawnmower pull" when I'm throwing my hand reaches back to my shoulder thats it so I'm thinking my reachback is my big issue. I throw low line drive shots no higher then 10-15 ft high and my distance is usually around 300-340!

 

[Triflusal]

Sorry - you missed my point. I was trying to show that form is ultra critical for those throwing slower than 60 mph. Those blessed with a strong arm can usually use brute force to compensate for poor form.

As for me, I am completely focused on my technique from the elbow down. Angle of disc at release (nose down and HF) and the snap of the wrist. I was able to push past the 330ft barrier by focusing on those two areas.

He didn't miss your point at all. If you can hold your arm out straight in front of you your arm is strong enough to throw 400' feet and over. The arm should be very passive in the throw.

Do this drill/example/whatever you want to call it. Do a throwing motion using only your arm muscles, trying to move your arm as fast as possible. Then relax your arm, and go through a throwing motion again, but this time use your shoulders and body motion to use your arm like a whip.

If you did it right using your body should be much faster than just your arm

 

[garublador]

Those blessed with a strong arm can usually use brute force to compensate for poor form.

I don't believe that is true, either. If you don't have good form you won't throw far. You can throw incrementally farther becasue of strength (I don't know how you can be "blessed" with strength, AFAIK muscles won't be big and strong without being used) but that's about it. It can mean the difference between being at the top or bottom of a plateau, but it won't allow you to jump to another plateau.

 

[Goon13]

He didn't miss your point at all. If you can hold your arm out straight in front of you your arm is strong enough to throw 400' feet and over. The arm should be very passive in the throw.

Do this drill/example/whatever you want to call it. Do a throwing motion using only your arm muscles, trying to move your arm as fast as possible. Then relax your arm, and go through a throwing motion again, but this time use your shoulders and body motion to use your arm like a whip.

If you did it right using your body should be much faster than just your arm

OK, I do understand that the speed of the disc coming out of your hand is a function of the dynamic chain that links the ground to the disc. Thus your foot work, core strength, arm strength, and wrist strength are all equally (?)important. I may have miss typed by focusing on arm strength as the only variable in the speed of your throw.

But the point I am/will continue to fail to make is that there are so many variables to achieving max distance that it is important to understand where your strengths and your weaknesses lie. For it is a challenge to greatly improve on strengths, while weaknesses can be improved the greatest.

The one thing that I have noticed is the best throwers seem to get the distance effortlessly, no wasted motion. Just a nice quick fluid release. I would bet they have a nice balance of core, arm, and wrist stength.

For my own experience: I started off using only arm and reached my first distance plateau after year of playing. Met an experienced guy on the course who helped work more of the core into the form. Now I am working wrist strength to overcome current plateau.

 

[eegor]

Want to drive far without big muscles? Study someone that does it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBQ4SkpWpRU&feature=player_embedded

 

[Mr. America]

But as someone noted in a thread a little while ago, in other sports "regular" people seem to get to about 80% of the performance of the top athletes

Where are stats on this at? I find it really hard to believe.

 

[garublador]

Where are stats on this at? I find it really hard to believe.

Here's the thread:

http://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39355

I guess it was like 75% rather than 80%, but the concept still applies.

We aren't talking about just grabbing someone off the street and comparing what they can do compared to a pro athlete. We're talking about someone who has taken the sport semi-seriously (good high school player to club college athlete level) and comparing them to top pro performance.

 

[Mr. America]

I still don't see anything backing up what you claim, other than dodgeball talking about ball golf driving distance which is far from accurate.

 

[garublador]

I still don't see anything backing up what you claim, other than dodgeball talking about ball golf driving distance which is far from accurate.

Sure it's all anecdotal evidence, but it's not like there's solid scientific evidence that it's false. Where is your evidence that the difference between ams and top pros is the same in disc golf as it is in other sports? What are the actual numbers if you think the ones provided are false and where did you get them?

If you're really interested I suggest you ask bikinjack where he got his numbers. I believe that they're valid so I haven't asked myself, but I don't see why he wouldn't be willing to share his experiences in more detail with you.

 

[garublador]

Just for fun, I did a quick Google search of what speed a high school senior is expected to be able to pitch. It seems like 75-80mph is normal. 85-90mph is really good. Seeing as top professional pitchers are in the mid 90's, that 75%-80% number seems about dead on.

Here's a site that compares average pitching speed with age group:

http://www.efastball.com/baseball/pitching/grips/average-pitching-speed-by-age-group/

If a 95 mph fastball is roughly equivalent to a 600' throw, then someone who maxes out at 400' (~350' of golf D) is roughly equivalent to a 12-14 year old pitcher. I'd call that a discrepancy between sports.

 

[Triflusal]

OK, I do understand that the speed of the disc coming out of your hand is a function of the dynamic chain that links the ground to the disc. Thus your foot work, core strength, arm strength, and wrist strength are all equally (?)important. I may have miss typed by focusing on arm strength as the only variable in the speed of your throw.

But the point I am/will continue to fail to make is that there are so many variables to achieving max distance that it is important to understand where your strengths and your weaknesses lie. For it is a challenge to greatly improve on strengths, while weaknesses can be improved the greatest.

The one thing that I have noticed is the best throwers seem to get the distance effortlessly, no wasted motion. Just a nice quick fluid release. I would bet they have a nice balance of core, arm, and wrist stength.

For my own experience: I started off using only arm and reached my first distance plateau after year of playing. Met an experienced guy on the course who helped work more of the core into the form. Now I am working wrist strength to overcome current plateau.

can you please list one person with a super strong arm and bad form that throws as well/as far as skinny lanky people with terrific form?

 

[Goon13]

can you please list one person with a super strong arm and bad form that throws as well/as far as skinny lanky people with terrific form?

I played a round with a college baseball pitcher. He could throw 400 ft. He never took his eyes off the basket, so there was little core involvement. Didn't hear the snap of his hand during the release. It looked to be all arm strength, but it's my perception - not a detailed high speed analysis.