American Disc Golf Tour

[DavidSauls]

I think we should start a gofundme page for Davids may 28 entry fee. Shoot for 100$?? Would that cover gas, food and entry fee?

Don't know what the entry fee is, I'm only 25 minutes away, just 1 meal....the real expense would be a sufficient bribe to entice me to leave Stoney Hill for a day.

 

[Brodysseus]

The dumbest thing is the initial folly---that disc golf can be, should be, a mainstream spectator sport. And that the kind of production the ADGT came up with, even if it were done impeccably, would spur that.

At a great venue on a gorgeous Sunday afternoon, in a metropolitan area of a half million and an hour from the disc golf hotbed of Charlotte, they drew......10 spectators who weren't already there, to play or with the players?

My convictions remain that disc golf will never be a mainstream spectator sport---but that, should I be wrong and the day come that it is big enough and interesting enough to entertain ESPN's audience, they'll pay us. We won't have to pay them.

:clap::clap::clap:

 

[brutalbrutus]

Yes indeed.

Personally, whenever I see your sig, it reminds me of "The Body Electric"...

 

[jeffmonty]

Yep, it's been pointed out that the "tour" isn't sustainable per the financials of this one event. However, the thing isn't officially dead until they're no longer willing to pour money into it AND they strike out on sponsorships.

Presumably the plan going forward was to use the live broadcast (or other edited footage?) and hit the streets hard looking for sponsors. Some major PDGA events raise enough money to cover the "upper five figure" costs that they incurred to run this event--or at least on that order of magnitude--so it's conceivable that this first year was seen as an investment. Presumably the grand scheme was that future iterations would break even or turn a profit...especially once sponsors saw the production quality and the glory of ESPN.

However, there are a number of reasons to think that sponsors won't be dumping money into future ADGT events. All of the PDGA majors have been built up on consecutive years of trust in the TD's and developing sponsor relations. Compared to that, it's tough to imagine the ADGT lining up enough support to make their events sustainable (especially at their quoted expense levels). Any potential sponsors should be very keyed into viewership numbers. That's one of the reasons that I haven't ironically watched it: that would falsely boost statistics and make the ADGT look less like garbage. On the plus side, anyone who knows anything about disc golf will be pretty unimpressed by many other stats on the ADGT baseball card: player attendance, spectator attendance, payouts,

After reading this I couldn't help thinking about how much smoke Salient is blowing up the a**es of these potential sponsors. Their well established MO is to decieve and BS their so-called tour every step of the way, so why wouldn't they do it to the people they are asking large sums of money from?

 

[bradharris]

Presumably the plan going forward was to use the live broadcast (or other edited footage?) and hit the streets hard looking for sponsors. Some major PDGA events raise enough money to cover the "upper five figure" costs that they incurred to run this event--or at least on that order of magnitude--so it's conceivable that this first year was seen as an investment. Presumably the grand scheme was that future iterations would break even or turn a profit...especially once sponsors saw the production quality and the glory of ESPN.

I'm pretty certain the "plan" ended with the American Open. They figured they could put disc golf on "ESPN" and the players would scramble to be a part of it, the fans would come out in droves, and the entire disc golf world that couldn't attend would tune in.

With this popularity, the money will come pouring in from sponsors and Kilgus can finally quit giving happy endings :thmbup:

 

[JedV]

Bump for a Charlie Goodpasture gofundme page.

You can read about the what and the why on Facebook.

I have done a fair amount of research and feel that Charlie Goodpasture has been slighted by the ADGT and Steve Boucher.

They claim to be refunding his money, but it has been made clear to me that no attempt has been made to do so.

I want to get Charlie his $299 back, plus $7 so he can buy a good beer and leave a good tip for his trouble.

If you feel like helping out, please do. If not, that's perfectly OK too, but I'd like to see the DG community make a statement here.

- Stuart Mullenberg, WASHOUGAL, WA

$192 raised in 3 days. That's pretty awesome.

https://www.gofundme.com/24kdgykc

 

[JTacoma03]

If they were telling the truth in the Ultiworld article, and the re-broadcast on ESPN2 is dependent only on the production quality, and not the viewership, perhaps they're tied up in negotiations on that right now.

They'd better hope they get this mystical "25k" number, because that production level just won't cut it for anything bigger than public access.

Not trying to be rude, but there hasn't been a single US disc golf broadcast in the last 5 years that's national network caliber. I 100% include everything I've been a part of in that.

Even EO2015, which was technically solid enough, wasn't executed quite at that level. Everything else lacks both tech and execution.

The dumbest thing is the initial folly---that disc golf can be, should be, a mainstream spectator sport. And that the kind of production the ADGT came up with, even if it were done impeccably, would spur that.

At a great venue on a gorgeous Sunday afternoon, in a metropolitan area of a half million and an hour from the disc golf hotbed of Charlotte, they drew......10 spectators who weren't already there, to play or with the players?

My convictions remain that disc golf will never be a mainstream spectator sport---but that, should I be wrong and the day come that it is big enough and interesting enough to entertain ESPN's audience, they'll pay us. We won't have to pay them.

(serious, not trolling)

What do you consider "mainstream"?

I consider events even as poorly attended as NCAA Women's sports (not making a joke or demeaning, just observing) to be "mainstream" events, and we have more spectators at our biggest events than the average NCAA Softball game.

If your definition is in the same ballpark as mine I think we have a mainstream capable sport - I by no means think we're going to be a "Major" sport (NFL, MLB, NASCAR, NBA) in our lifetimes - but mainstream recognition is on the horizon. It's easier now than in the past to achieve that.

 

[rhatton1]

If it were local to me, I might be inclined to go just to play rules lawyer all day.

this I would pay an ESPN subscription to watch!

 

[DavidSauls]

(serious, not trolling)

What do you consider "mainstream"?

I consider events even as poorly attended as NCAA Women's sports (not making a joke or demeaning, just observing) to be "mainstream" events, and we have more spectators at our biggest events than the average NCAA Softball game.

If your definition is in the same ballpark as mine I think we have a mainstream capable sport - I by no means think we're going to be a "Major" sport (NFL, MLB, NASCAR, NBA) in our lifetimes - but mainstream recognition is on the horizon. It's easier now than in the past to achieve that.

Fair question.

I'm saying "mainstream spectator sport", because we're much closer to being a mainstream participation sport.

I'm not sure where the line is. A sport with enough spectators that it's profitable to put in on for the revenue you get from spectators---either at the venue, or watching on national TV. I'd extend the "Major" sports to a lot of collegiate sports---even women's sports, in some places.

A threshold at this point in time might be something that the major networks or ESPN would show during regular viewing times (not middle of the night), because they expect to get enough revenue from advertisers.

I'm also assuming, from their statements, that this is more or less what the ADGT means by making disc golf a mainstream sport.

 

[DatRedDude]

Its pretty easy to see that they lost a ton of money on this event.
Im calling it now, this was a one and done.
Also very likely that it takes down salient with it.
Gotta love seeing bad things happen to bad people.

pretty sure someone called that back about 100 pages, maybe 4 or 5 months ago. Welcome to the party though.

 

[lyleoross]

I think Jamie raises a great point, our biggest events have as many spectators as any softball event. However, what is the online market? Can we deliver the eyes that a university audience does? I've always argued that we won't have the big dollars to drive the marketing needed to get air time. That has changed significantly over the past years. Take GBO. 1200 players, say 800 rooms. Times $50 to make it easy. It's more I know. But hotels alone are $120,000 for three days. If you're in two hotels say both Best Western, you have their attention. Then there's all the other amenities. Basically, we're getting closer to the kind of money that drives ESPN3.

 

[DavidSauls]

I think we should start a gofundme page for Davids may 28 entry fee. Shoot for 100$?? Would that cover gas, food and entry fee?

Hold that thought.....

The tournament has disappeared from the PDGA events calendar.

 

[DavidSauls]

I think Jamie raises a great point, our biggest events have as many spectators as any softball event. However, what is the online market? Can we deliver the eyes that a university audience does? I've always argued that we won't have the big dollars to drive the marketing needed to get air time. That has changed significantly over the past years. Take GBO. 1200 players, say 800 rooms. Times $50 to make it easy. It's more I know. But hotels alone are $120,000 for three days. If you're in two hotels say both Best Western, you have their attention. Then there's all the other amenities. Basically, we're getting closer to the kind of money that drives ESPN3.

You're comparing our biggest events to an average softball event?

And I wouldn't argue that softball is a "mainstream spectator sport". It is a really big participation sport.

And the question isn't how many players rent rooms at an event. It's how many people would watch, and how much money the hotels would make advertising to those spectators.

 

[WhiteyBear]

What the end game though? What do you all want with being "mainstream"? McBeth with logos all over a uniform a la NASCAR, or to be at the same level of said softball; nationally recognized, played at all ages and levels, and where payout isn't the concern but rather the love of the game.

Guess I just answered my own question :/

 

[BirdieMachine]

For Some it's about making more dollars (DG Pro's and Manufacturers), others it's probably a pride thing, they don't want to be seen as the freak in the woods smoking up and tossing frisbees.

 

[bradharris]

It's really hard to compare disc golf to any collegiate sport. Every college team in every sport has instant name recognition that makes it more watchable. Not to mention, there's the pride associated with the school's community that draws in fans.

Professional softball does exist, but it's far from "mainstream."

 

[DavidSauls]

Personally, I favor the continued growth of disc golf as a participation sport.

Whatever derives from that for the top pros, is fine with me.

 

[lyleoross]

You're comparing our biggest events to an average softball event?

And I wouldn't argue that softball is a "mainstream spectator sport". It is a really big participation sport.

And the question isn't how many players rent rooms at an event. It's how many people would watch, and how much money the hotels would make advertising to those spectators.

But look at the end point of my comment, and the questions I posed. I simply pointed out that we're getting close to the kind of capital it takes. You made it sound like I said were gonna be on NBC.

 

[Jenga54]

I guess we'll see, this conversation will move over to the Disc Golf Pro Tour... Since DGWT cut the streaming thing (at least from the last one) it's down to DGPT. And their thing is "Watch. And grow the sport" so they kind of have to stream live. And I will be going to see the local event in Minnesota which is awesome. But they are kind of committed to streaming this so I suppose we will see what kind of numbers they get. Plus they pretty much have backing from all the other companies except for Innova/Disc Mania.

 

[BionicRib]

Hold that thought.....

The tournament has disappeared from the PDGA events calendar.

Makes sense since there was no way to register for it