I rarely need to use a mid forehand since I started using my zone forehand.. I have used several mids for FH and BH in my time. I have used a Roc+, ESP Buzzz, Z Wasp, Evo Demon, currently I am using an S Demon though. If I want a FH mid that turns over late then I would use a flat top KC Roc (but that almost never is needed) but I will usually just throw my proD Zone instead and be ok with it being 20-30 shorter.
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[Question] Best Dual Threat (BH&FH) Midrange?
- Thread starter BrotherDave
- Start date
Buzzz for me, easy. Z, Big Z, or ESP plastic. Grip is comfortable with the slim profile and lack of bead. There's enough fade to get a useful finish, but also enough turn that it goes either straight or helps carve great approach S curves or right to left lines for RHFH.
I'm definitely not throwing these for full power. I have a boring but consistent forehand that evolved from an ultimate Ultrastar forehand. I throw Polecats forehand and even Comets, though also on lower power touch lines. It does great for straight, low ceiling 200'-230' standstill forehands for me, or for the Buzzz approach lines I mentioned above.
I use a Zone for forehands I want to flex or have fade, or a Firebird if I truly want to flex something a little longer or need skip/fade. I have also learned to disc up to something like a Teebird, Undertaker, or Vulture if I want to put some more effort into it for anything even in the high 200s. I'll admit the Buzzz doesn't have true torque resistance in it's more desirable neutral form, but I have no use for a truly overstable workhorse mid.
I'm definitely not throwing these for full power. I have a boring but consistent forehand that evolved from an ultimate Ultrastar forehand. I throw Polecats forehand and even Comets, though also on lower power touch lines. It does great for straight, low ceiling 200'-230' standstill forehands for me, or for the Buzzz approach lines I mentioned above.
I use a Zone for forehands I want to flex or have fade, or a Firebird if I truly want to flex something a little longer or need skip/fade. I have also learned to disc up to something like a Teebird, Undertaker, or Vulture if I want to put some more effort into it for anything even in the high 200s. I'll admit the Buzzz doesn't have true torque resistance in it's more desirable neutral form, but I have no use for a truly overstable workhorse mid.
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- Feb 24, 2011
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Yeah moose I just about always agree with you, and you DEFINITELY have a better FH than I do, but I love to flick the Buzzz. Like armiller I come from an ultimate background and will also FH Comets/beat putters/Cobras/Roadrunners no problem. Sure I need something more overstable if I'm going full power torquemonkey status but at that point I'd rather just manipulate a disc BH somehow.
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- Feb 2, 2014
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It's just a different approach I guess. If I'm throwing something over 200-250 it's probably going to be a Harp or something not a finesse shot with a flippy disc.
I think that my forehand is pretty good, but if you want to see me embarrassed watch me try to FH a Buzzz.
I literally made a Roc vs Buzzz video a few years ago and gave up because I couldn't get the Buzzz to go where I wanted forehand. Deleted two hours of work.
Hampstead
* Ace Member *
What a bizarre comment. A Meteor is basically a well seasoned Buzzz, so if a Buzzz is touchy, a Meteor would be pretty flippy.
It's wild that the FH Buzzz fans are bringing up Ultimate backgrounds because I discovered recently that I can FH the piss out of a Rift or Buzzz if I use more of an Ultimate wind up. They're still a little too flippy for something I'd personally want to use for workhorse duties though. Even the Verdict I have to keep myself honest on form more than I'd like to (compared to my drivers and putters where I can get away with more sloppy torque).
I'll have to look into the Gila though. I thought it was more like a Roc type mid and I hate Roc type mids in FH grips. The one Pyro I've got is just really dumpy and glideless and not much fun to throw BH or FH.
I can see the Bard being good for this though, if you don't mind the bead. I might have to test out the Reactor, I'm a little surprised to see it get much FH love. I expected more Deflector, Pyro, Runway mentions from the gyro heads.
I'll have to look into the Gila though. I thought it was more like a Roc type mid and I hate Roc type mids in FH grips. The one Pyro I've got is just really dumpy and glideless and not much fun to throw BH or FH.
I can see the Bard being good for this though, if you don't mind the bead. I might have to test out the Reactor, I'm a little surprised to see it get much FH love. I expected more Deflector, Pyro, Runway mentions from the gyro heads.
hawgdriver
Eagle Member
Yeah, agree it's a bizarre comment so I'll add some context.
So the Buzzz has almost exactly the same dimensions as the Meteor, but the difference to me is thatthe Meteor has slightly more even ratio of rim depth to width, making it feel much more like a driver in my hand. And just the overall feel of the rim on the Meteor is more sleek, even if the PDGA numbers on the mold don't explain it all.
I'm throwing an older Meteor, I think, fwiw. Like this.
Other context: to me it feels like if the rim doesn't get really snuggly with the crook of my hand, there's this tendency to induce angle errors on harder throws. Buzzz has just enough of a bottom of rim bite and overall shape to keep it from being as snuggly as a Meteor.
Ok, final thing--I wouldn't throw the Meteor as hard as I'd expect to throw a Buzzz on FH--it would flip. So it's more along the lines of 'what does this disc excel at?' and Meteor has this ability to do some Buzzz-like things (amazing inertia, predictable, doesn't fail hard, surprising distance) so I'd throw it in those situations but not when I need to really send it on a FH.
Both discs have strong limitations in my book--Meteor is too understable to rely upon on a max FH, Buzzz is too ungainly and also slightly too understable for a max FH. On a max FH I'd rather throw a Buzzz if OB is an issue, but if I won't be punished too hard, I might throw Meteor and just try to nail the angle control on the hyzer flip.
Sorry, got a bit wordy there. Overall, both are compromised discs on full-send FH shots for me, but with Buzzz it's an issue of comfort and with Meteor it's an issue of angle control.
Edit: I'd still be happy with either one as a 'swiss-army' disc like the OP requested. They are imperfect tho.
PSS - I throw in Denver, so factor in the altitude in my comment.
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Envy. Case closed. It's a mid right? 
... like you know 267' .. That's midrange territory
... like you know 267' .. That's midrange territory
hawgdriver
Eagle Member
Envy. Case closed. It's a mid right?
... like you know 267' .. That's midrange territory
I keep calling Fly Greens every day asking about the UPS tracking details on the Axiom/MVP shipment. Supposed to be any day now--maybe even TOMORROW!
I got a good feeling about picking up a few Envys and foolin around a lil bit.
But I've been hurt before...so...
As far as this thread goes, the disc for me is the Caiman. I can max it at about 300 BH and slightly less FH--feels solid in the hand and is decent in rough conditions. But, based on other user comments, I've come to find that I also like the Kaxe and Bullfrog for this kind of dual role--the FH piece in particular. Compass also deserves a strong look as a Buzzz-proxy that might feel a bit more comfortable.
seedlings
* Ace Member *
I recently picked up an MD2. If you can find one (get past the dome), it has remarkable resistance to turn and has glide that makes you smile. Floats down with a slight, reliable, fading finish. The larger diameter does make you throw FH intentionally, get wrist and forearm on plane. Ima try to pick up an MD3 when they drop. Emac Truth is already mentioned.
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My answer of the Envy isn't completely a trolling attempt, in my bag it is my mid, other than a Comet. Had a great round last night with just two envy. FH/BH and EH (everyhand).
dehaas
* Ace Member *
I'm on a quest for this right now myself.
Been primarily a roc guy for probably 5-7 years, throw primarily FH right now after tweaking my shoulder a couple years ago. Originally started out throwing FH, learned BH, got hurt and could FH pain free way before I could BH and eventually learned FH hyzerflip finesse and neglected my BH game. Right now I typically carry like 2 mids, and use them more for approach situations. Zone covers most FH short range shots and longer I'll power down a firebird.
I've been working on getting the BH mojo back this summer, it's been a slow process but finally ditching some bad habits. I definitely agree with the idea being able to throw the same disc FH and BH, and don't have a problem throwing flippier stuff FH. Some discs just feel better in one grip than the other, so I do carry a couple dedicated BH or FH discs presently, the goal is to find molds that feel and fly good in either grip.
When my BH game was at its best I was throwing the buzzz. I've flicked a buddy's a few times lately and would do the job, just not a fan of all the DC limited release stuff lately and having to stay on top of them if I want to stockpile a small stash. I dabbled with the m2, m3, and m4 for a bit a few years ago and really liked them…haven't tossed them recently though. Also threw a buddy's compass recently and it wasn't bad either. The last couple times I've been to the local shop I keep feeling up the reactor, something about it just feels awesome in the hand. It's been forever since I've dabbled with any gyro but recall liking the relay and crave. Kinda excited to see how the reactor works out.
Been primarily a roc guy for probably 5-7 years, throw primarily FH right now after tweaking my shoulder a couple years ago. Originally started out throwing FH, learned BH, got hurt and could FH pain free way before I could BH and eventually learned FH hyzerflip finesse and neglected my BH game. Right now I typically carry like 2 mids, and use them more for approach situations. Zone covers most FH short range shots and longer I'll power down a firebird.
I've been working on getting the BH mojo back this summer, it's been a slow process but finally ditching some bad habits. I definitely agree with the idea being able to throw the same disc FH and BH, and don't have a problem throwing flippier stuff FH. Some discs just feel better in one grip than the other, so I do carry a couple dedicated BH or FH discs presently, the goal is to find molds that feel and fly good in either grip.
When my BH game was at its best I was throwing the buzzz. I've flicked a buddy's a few times lately and would do the job, just not a fan of all the DC limited release stuff lately and having to stay on top of them if I want to stockpile a small stash. I dabbled with the m2, m3, and m4 for a bit a few years ago and really liked them…haven't tossed them recently though. Also threw a buddy's compass recently and it wasn't bad either. The last couple times I've been to the local shop I keep feeling up the reactor, something about it just feels awesome in the hand. It's been forever since I've dabbled with any gyro but recall liking the relay and crave. Kinda excited to see how the reactor works out.
jrbaldes
Bogey Member
Let me double check the stock. Im certain we have more.
phishbiscuits
Par Member
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2018
- Messages
- 115
Oooh! That would be amazing.
You're not wrong and I've been riding the Envy train for a while now. It's kept me from even thinking about FH any mid really but lately I've been finding myself in scenarios where I don't want to overpower the Envy but I don't want to disc up into a driver because of the skip. It's a weird gap in my repertoire I didn't think I'd run into very often but alas. Plus if I'm already carrying at least a couple mids, I might as well and see if they can pull double-duty.
This is a good example of one of these scenarios. Hole 9 at Keeley Park is 270' but plays a tad longer, maybe 290' because it goes uphill after the creek. Those twin pines are RIGHT IN YOUR FACE (they have since tied mats to the front of these because they look like they got into a fight with Wolverine) and hitting one of them is an instant bogey or worse. So I've been doing a standstill FH but the drivers have trouble finishing dead straight and there's a lot of annoying pine trees inside the circle and can block your putt. I've finally been able to birdie this routinely with a Rift or Verdict flick.
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- May 3, 2010
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- 3,791
When I used to have a (somewhat) reliable FH, I would use a Champ Roc3 quite a bit. It replaced my Buzzz to get just a touch, teeny bit more HSS both BH and FH.
I also have a few champ Champ Roc3's that fly like a Comet, so maybe I had some fluke beefy ones.
^^^ Wasp would probably be it if I didn't use Roc3's, good answer
I also have a few champ Champ Roc3's that fly like a Comet, so maybe I had some fluke beefy ones.
^^^ Wasp would probably be it if I didn't use Roc3's, good answer
Alexplz
Double Eagle Member
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2013
- Messages
- 1,923
I've seen your signature literally hundreds of times, and it just hit me. You started discing in the late 80s, and I was born in the late 80s! :hfive:
Speaking of Envys as mids, I for a while earnestly considered building my bag like this:
Daggers for putting and approaching - very slow putter
Envies, Proxies, Zones, Mirage for "mids"
Leopards, Gazelles, slow MVP faiways (servo and resistor) for slow fairways
Escapes for "distance drivers"
As it turns out, I just really like the faster mids too.
