Brodie Smith PDGA #128378

[Cgkdisc]

Upside of cut:
- Cut (regional) pros save lodging cost and time for a night or two, i.e., if you think of playing as a job, do you want to continue "working" when there's little chance of getting paid, or enough to make it worthwhile.
- Host team requires less staffing, people and/or hours
- More time to play tougher version of course after the cut and deal with weather delays
- Looks more like professional ball golf format (to those who think that matters)

Downside of cut:
- Fewer people sticking around town for a day or two for local sponsors/host hotels who benefit from more players being in town for event
- When players are flying in, more flight change complications if cut
- Sponsors lose exposure when their players who wear sponsor names and logos get cut.
- Round ratings likely suffer for remaining rounds once the bottom half of field isn't adding strokes to the course rating, that is, unless the PDGA adjusts for that.

 

[Jugular]

Good question. The first one that comes to mind is fewer players on a given card going into the final rounds which I would expect to speed up the pace of play (or at least reduce the number of times there is significant back up during a round). On the flip side, what is the benefit of not having a cut?

Players who have paid an entry fee get a known number of rounds of Disc Golf to play to demonstrate their ability? I know people will say only amateurs care about getting all their course time for their entry fee but we should also be keen to see players who are declining in ability hand over their spare rating points to their opponents. I know not everything is about rating points but having a cut will always disadvantage those that were about to have a good round to the benefit of those who had a good first round but go on to score poorly later on.

What's the word for a tournament that you need to qualify for? For those, e.g. DGPT, do they require an entry fee?

 

[Jay Dub]

Players who have paid an entry fee get a known number of rounds of Disc Golf to play to demonstrate their ability? I know people will say only amateurs care about getting all their course time for their entry fee but we should also be keen to see players who are declining in ability hand over their spare rating points to their opponents. I know not everything is about rating points but having a cut will always disadvantage those that were about to have a good round to the benefit of those who had a good first round but go on to score poorly later on.

What's the word for a tournament that you need to qualify for? For those, e.g. DGPT, do they require an entry fee?

Open? Like the US Open in ball golf?

 

[Ahildy13]

Players who have paid an entry fee get a known number of rounds of Disc Golf to play to demonstrate their ability? I know people will say only amateurs care about getting all their course time for their entry fee but we should also be keen to see players who are declining in ability hand over their spare rating points to their opponents. I know not everything is about rating points but having a cut will always disadvantage those that were about to have a good round to the benefit of those who had a good first round but go on to score poorly later on.

What's the word for a tournament that you need to qualify for? For those, e.g. DGPT, do they require an entry fee?

I believe the term would traditionally be "Invitational"
But I have no idea how entry fees work. Considering there isn't a ton of money in disc golf, I would assume they still have entry fees.

 

[Jay Dub]

I believe the term would traditionally be "Invitational"
But I have no idea how entry fees work. Considering there isn't a ton of money in disc golf, I would assume they still have entry fees.

I thought that at first but I don't think you qualify for an invitational, you get invited.

 

[DiscJunkie]

There are probably a thousand guys out there who would be 1010+ players if someone gave them the opportunity to be what they could be.

I'm most impressed by the guys who have their time for disc golf taken away from them and they still stick/become 1010+ guys.

Exactly. If all of us had the resources to be able to play golf all the time we'd be a hell of a lot better.

I think this point is overlooked all the time. Every area has a handful of 970 to 1000 rated pros playing in local tournaments. Most of them would quickly jump over 1000 if they disc golfed for a living.

I have heard this line of reasoning before, as if Brodie has an unfair advantage...

As far as I know, Brodie has worked hard to establish his brand and his cash flow.
Granted, he's not working a 9-to-5, but he worked at Ultimate, established his brand on Social Media and has been rewarded with a contract with Discraft because of that Social Media presence.
The things (Social Media) that Brodie does (and has done) are available to anyone with the perseverance and talent to try to "go for it"..
He is continuing to "stoke" that media presence by saying provocative things about Disc Golf.
Some other famous attention hog once said that it doesn't matter what they say about you, as long as they're talking about you.
Brodie is smarter than many people give him credit for, but don't detract from his Disc Golf accomplishments because he doesn't work a 9-to-5.
He has earned everything he has gotten.

Now, I am not a Brodie fan.
I can make it through less than half of his videos on YT, but I recognize the hard work and talent that it has taken to get where he is, and it is a path not closed to anyone else.

 

[ChrisWoj]

I have heard this line of reasoning before, as if Brodie has an unfair advantage...

As far as I know, Brodie has worked hard to establish his brand and his cash flow.
Granted, he's not working a 9-to-5, but he worked at Ultimate, established his brand on Social Media and has been rewarded with a contract with Discraft because of that Social Media presence.
The things (Social Media) that Brodie does (and has done) are available to anyone with the perseverance and talent to try to "go for it"..
He is continuing to "stoke" that media presence by saying provocative things about Disc Golf.
Some other famous attention hog once said that it doesn't matter what they say about you, as long as they're talking about you.
Brodie is smarter than many people give him credit for, but don't detract from his Disc Golf accomplishments because he doesn't work a 9-to-5.
He has earned everything he has gotten.

Now, I am not a Brodie fan.
I can make it through less than half of his videos on YT, but I recognize the hard work and talent that it has taken to get where he is, and it is a path not closed to anyone else.

Please pay attention to the conversation.
My initial post about people that could easily be 1010 was in response to someone pointing to some guy who took 2nd behind Brodie in a tournament and was once a 980 rated guy who disappeared for a decade. I wasn't referring to Brodie.

I'm sure Brodie will be a 1020+ player if not 1030 as long as he stays healthy. He's had a long career in disc sports which gives him a feel for throwing a disc that most of us could only dream of having. And he's got the time to put the energy in to get there. I was one of the people who predicted he'd be above 980 by the end of the year, and the reason I gave for not thinking he'd be 1000+ was because I didn't realize he'd bounce himself from the tour to play extra events. I figured he wouldn't reach 1000 because he wouldn't have enough events to overwhelm his early efforts.

 

[DiscFifty]

Downside of cut:
- Fewer people sticking around town for a day or two for local sponsors/host hotels who benefit from more players being in town for event
- When players are flying in, more flight change complications if cut
- Sponsors lose exposure when their players who wear sponsor names and logos get cut.
- Round ratings likely suffer for remaining rounds once the bottom half of field isn't adding strokes to the course rating, that is, unless the PDGA adjusts for that.

That's a pretty thin list of downsides imop. And I'm guessing cut players aren't going to be popular sponsored players....90% of the time. If the DGPT eliminated round ratings it wouldn't skip a beat as far as interest goes.

 

[ru4por]

I have heard this line of reasoning before, as if Brodie has an unfair advantage...

As far as I know, Brodie has worked hard to establish his brand and his cash flow.
Granted, he's not working a 9-to-5, but he worked at Ultimate, established his brand on Social Media and has been rewarded with a contract with Discraft because of that Social Media presence.
The things (Social Media) that Brodie does (and has done) are available to anyone with the perseverance and talent to try to "go for it"..
He is continuing to "stoke" that media presence by saying provocative things about Disc Golf.
Some other famous attention hog once said that it doesn't matter what they say about you, as long as they're talking about you.
Brodie is smarter than many people give him credit for, but don't detract from his Disc Golf accomplishments because he doesn't work a 9-to-5.
He has earned everything he has gotten.

Now, I am not a Brodie fan.
I can make it through less than half of his videos on YT, but I recognize the hard work and talent that it has taken to get where he is, and it is a path not closed to anyone else.

I also did not say, nor imply that anything was unfair. Just an advantage over the local Joe Pro rated 1000, whilst working, taking care of a family and fitting in a few league and tournament rounds when they can.

 

[ru4por]

Downside of cut:
- Fewer people sticking around town for a day or two for local sponsors/host hotels who benefit from more players being in town for event
- When players are flying in, more flight change complications if cut
- Sponsors lose exposure when their players who wear sponsor names and logos get cut.
- Round ratings likely suffer for remaining rounds once the bottom half of field isn't adding strokes to the course rating, that is, unless the PDGA adjusts for that.

That's a pretty thin list of downsides imop. And I'm guessing cut players aren't going to be popular sponsored players....90% of the time. If the DGPT eliminated round ratings it wouldn't skip a beat as far as interest goes.

Is it? I like to think about the above from the TD/local club perspective. Players leaving town early has a big impact on my ability to raise donations and funds to put the tournament on. Cuts are going to most certainly going to impact local pros more than any one. Local spectators are not provided the chance to see their friends and competition play on the last day.

I might argue there are no legit upsides. I don't honestly see much savings on volunteer cost. Tear down, spotting, tournament central, flymart, course water, crowd control....all are still required, in the same numbers for the most part.

 

[Hampstead]

Brad Schick has managed to carve out a nice little disc golf career while working a full time job and raising a family.

https://www.pdga.com/player/7992

 

[ToddL]

I see very little upside to having a cut, but also not any earth-shattering downsides.

Upside:
- Fewer players on final day. Can lead to shorter day, earlier finish, more security for weather delay
- According to Brodie: players below cut can go ahead and drive to the next course and start practicing

Downside:
- As a paying competitor, I don't like being kicked out of a tournament that I paid to compete in.
- I already paid for a hotel and/or transportation for the whole weekend, so I still have to stick around the final day anyway, but I'm not allowed to play
- Missing the cut by 1 stroke also means that you were 1 stroke away from getting in the cash on the final day. Sure I'm not gonna jump from the cut line to winning, but I can still jump from the cut line to cashing.

One of Brodie's points is that if you miss the cut, you can just go to the next tour stop and start practicing early. Well, you can still do that - all you have to do is quit the tournament you're playing and get on the road. Let the TD know you're dropping out as early as you can, and feel free to leave town.

One of my other rebuttals opens a completely new can of worms: half of the spots on Elite Series events are still filled with a bunch of locals who took time off work to come play. They paid their $250 just like everyone else, but you want to take away a third of their experience? Nobody wants to pay money to not play golf. This, of course, leads directly to the question of why all the local guys are even allowed to play. IMO, we're still several years away from kicking them out. You want them to play so you can pad the purse and extend the payout. If you want to switch to a cut, you have to more fully fund the purse with sponsorship money, reduce/eliminate entry fees, and restrict the players who can register. Possibly a good idea in theory, but we're several years from being able to implement that.

 

[DiscFifty]

Is it? I like to think about the above from the TD/local club perspective.

I've had new found respect for what my local clubs, tds, do for for the local scene, alot of it due to your posts. But for the elite player DGPT tour, I really don't think players having to leave early due to a cut is going to damper any interest or money generated by the event. And keep in mind, as we discuss these ideas, it's not something I don't think anyone wants to happen "today". It's basically a discussion for the future, how many years from now... who knows.

 

[Ahildy13]

That's a pretty thin list of downsides imop. And I'm guessing cut players aren't going to be popular sponsored players....90% of the time. If the DGPT eliminated round ratings it wouldn't skip a beat as far as interest goes.

Question: How much does a sponsor pay for on a lower-level player? I am assuming free plastic/merch, but are they paying for tournament fees? Food stipends?
If all of this is coming out of the players pocket, the issue is going to come down to fewer people showing up if there's a cut, and therefore even less payout money.
"Well I didn't make the cut 3 weeks in a row, why don't I just bow out for a few events until I'm feeling stronger?"

 

[autocrosscrx]

When Uli got knocked out of the Tour Championship on a Friday, he went down the road and won a C Tier on a Saturday.

I'm not saying that we should have cuts, but if that were to happen, I think the sport is structured in a way that a player could still try to earn some income for the weekend and it could be to the benefit of nearby TD's and clubs.

 

[Jay Dub]

I also did not say, nor imply that anything was unfair. Just an advantage over the local Joe Pro rated 1000, whilst working, taking care of a family and fitting in a few league and tournament rounds when they can.

This was my point also that was slightly missed.

 

[ru4por]

When Uli got knocked out of the Tour Championship on a Friday, he went down the road and won a C Tier on a Saturday.

I'm not saying that we should have cuts, but if that were to happen, I think the sport is structured in a way that a player could still try to earn some income for the weekend and it could be to the benefit of nearby TD's and clubs.

Because that is what I am looking for. Donating some of my local AM money to a fail touring pro, via the MPO field of my local C Tier. No thanks.

I'm sure they will gladly kick in with some premium CTP's and stick around till dark to help with tear down.

 

[autocrosscrx]

Because that is what I am looking for. Donating some of my local AM money to a fail touring pro, via the MPO field of my local C Tier. No thanks.

I'm sure they will gladly kick in with some premium CTP's and stick around till dark to help with tear down.

Cuts don't benefit me in any way, but I'm here to talk about stuff.

 

[dehaas]

When Uli got knocked out of the Tour Championship on a Friday, he went down the road and won a C Tier on a Saturday.

I'm not saying that we should have cuts, but if that were to happen, I think the sport is structured in a way that a player could still try to earn some income for the weekend and it could be to the benefit of nearby TD's and clubs.

My thoughts were along these lines.

The thing to keep in mind is that cuts would only apply to your larger events...something like the Memorial, DDO, Ledgestone, Maple Hill, etc.

I think smaller satellite events would be a pretty popular idea. Maybe reserve so many positions in the open field for players missing the cut and want to play as opposed to just going home or to the next stop. Local pros can take a shot at the main event and still have a chance to have a strong showing if they get bounced after the cut.

 

[ru4por]

Cuts don't benefit me in any way, but I'm here to talk about stuff.

Sorry, my rally friend. The comment was not supposed to be directed at you, just working off your post. :hfive: