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Copyright Issues
- Thread starter ZAMson
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SonicGuy
Banned
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My $.02
- IP infringement = theft != robbery/burglary. The idea of "theft" is not restricted to physical objects, while robbery/burglary are. Hopefully this ends the argument over that terminology.
- Gateway certainly perpetrates IP infringement on a regular basis
- I have no idea why any third party would care and be so indignant about it. Gateway's infringement does not degrade the property in any way nor does it deprive the right holders of any economic opportunity. While what Gateway is doing is wrong, I really don't understand getting your panties in a wad over it unless you personally work for Disney and it is your job to care.
- IP infringement = theft != robbery/burglary. The idea of "theft" is not restricted to physical objects, while robbery/burglary are. Hopefully this ends the argument over that terminology.
- Gateway certainly perpetrates IP infringement on a regular basis
- I have no idea why any third party would care and be so indignant about it. Gateway's infringement does not degrade the property in any way nor does it deprive the right holders of any economic opportunity. While what Gateway is doing is wrong, I really don't understand getting your panties in a wad over it unless you personally work for Disney and it is your job to care.
fatty mcbutterpants
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Disney could be offended that their illegally produced Mickey Mouse Wizard is marketed right next to a Wizard with a wizard smoking a joint while banging a big tittied chic over the corpse of Jerry Garcia whilst Jumpman is readying himself to get tagged in.
It is also a bit too much BS for me to accept your argument of "that is wrong, but it doesn't concern me, so it is okay" as a serious or valid point.
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Nah, the Grateful Dead allowed free use of their art. That's why it's so common, nobody is going to sue you for using it. It either cost them millions and millions in merchandise royalties or helped to push their band to be one of the most recognizable, making their performances more profitable. Depending on who you talk to, of course.These dead head stamps have been around for a long time. Grateful Dead ever get money for that?
SonicGuy
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Fair point on the negative association, I hadn't considered that aspect.
If you are going to call my argument BS at least get it right. My argument is that it is wrong, doesn't concern me, and is still wrong despite it not concerning me.
SonicGuy
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Phil Lesh wanted to aggressively protect GD artwork. He is a very staunch IP rights guy.
Mulligan
Double Eagle Member
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And Jerry was making more money in the end off of licensing his image than the band itself.
fatty mcbutterpants
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Sorry for the misunderstanding then. What I got was "It is wrong, but i dont understand why anyone should care."
It is exactly the same crime. You are taking something that an individual created without permission, and selling it to gain money for yourself, giving nothing to them. Whether that creation is a handcrafted dining room table, a screenplay, a logo, or a design for a lawnmower that gets a distribution deal at Home Depot, it's the exact. same. thing.
It's not a matter of opinion. If you walk into a furniture shop and take a finished piece, it's exactly the same as if you go through a carpenter's design notes on a piece, make a clone of it, and sell it yourself.
This is misleading though:
1. Innova pet food doesn't exist (I had never heard of them, but heading to their website they posted that they've "shut down after 2 decades"...so placing their timeline in the early to mid 90's? Innova Champion Discs existed before that.
2. You linked a newer Innova logo, so I think the more parsimonious explanation is that a typekit is popular or "in" when these designs came about, and both companies had people making them that were following trends.
3. This would be a trademark case, not a copyright. Trademarks and Copyrights are different.
Did you know that SpinTV and the DGPT coincidentally use the same font? It happens.
No, you would have to seek out an eagle and feed it. So you're not stealing its food.
In reality, the royalties would go to 2 groups - those holding the master copyright, and those holding the record copyright. The band members sign away the copyrights to those studios/record labels in their "deal" - effectively cutting in those companies on the potential profits of the song before its recorded, in exchange for valuing the risk the label takes in fronting the cash, time, studio space, and talent to produce the record itself with the band.
This is a simplified version of it, there are nuances, trends, etc. in copyright dealings in music...and labels are increasingly more shark-like (read up on 360 deals in the recording industry if you want to see a big factor in why music seems to be getting ****tier as time goes on...)
tbird888
Salient Disc Test Team
I was talking about your employer's mold, the Eagle. We are talking about stamps, after all. Geez Jamie, you must be a blast at parties.
To the third party point:
Say someone wanted to license something that Gateway already stamps at no cost to them.
Gateway can sell that image/disc at a much lower price point because they aren't paying licensing fees.
The people who wanted to pay for the license to use the image, have basically priced themselves out of competition.
That and the whole theft deal/morals, if they too were a working artist.
@iDiscGolf
* Ace Member *
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Didn't RDG sell MVP discs with Pokemon on them? Zamsons heads gonna explode if it hasnt already.
Pfft, Gateway should just move to China, pay off some government officials and then steal all the IP their heart desires.
djcadence
Par Member
I agree it's wrong, but to be honest I think no company/artist really care if Gateway uses band art/logos on discs. If they did, I'm sure a simple cease/desist order would be filed and I'm sure they would comply. Gateways sales probably don't even make it worth the time of going to court, plus it's not like they are using Disney images. On the other hand, Dynamic has more skin in the game, plus Disney is known for going after unlicensed use of IP. So I think Gateway knows which lines to cross, and Dynamic took a risk (with Disney of all people) and it bit them in the ass. Now if you really want to go further down the rabbit hole, what's your take on stencil dyes. Should retailers, eBay stop selling discs that use trademarked/copyrighted images?
crd 81
Double Eagle Member
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To broaden that out, would dyeing a particular stencil/artwork on your own disc be considered theft? I could see it be arguing both ways but I'm curious to hear what people have to say.
jcassidy1990
Reptilian Disc Golf
He's aware. I won't do it again. I totally understand the hooplah/stink he raises about this issue.
I've raised a lot of funds by the sale of unlicensed artwork. Honestly, I've never been a fan of it but it does allow the money to compound (which in turn means more projects).
Most everyone knows I don't do RDG for income. Nearly every penny is sent back out for molds, paying my artists, shipping supplies, etc. That however is no excuse for how the foundation of RDG was built.
As noted, I've pretty well sold off our questionable stamped discs, and am making an effort to rely on just organic/parody pieces from here on out.
I was talking about your employer's mold, the Eagle. We are talking about stamps, after all. Geez Jamie, you must be a blast at parties.
Now you've totally lost me, you posted a link comparing Innova Pet Food and Innova Champion Disc logos...
What's this about the Eagle?
Also I work with Innova, not for them.
No, the sticking point for copyright infringement is commercial use. You do whatever makes your happy to your own discs.
Even if you were to sell it on here P2P, for example, that's closer to grey area in terms of infringement. However you wouldn't have anybody knocking at your door unless maybe you misrepresented it as a product created by the owner of the original IP.
tbird888
Salient Disc Test Team
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