Cory Ellis 1:12 seconds clock

[seedlings]

On 2022 DGLO hole 7 I timed Cory Ellis at 1 min 12 seconds to throw. It was at least a few seconds longer before coverage cut to him.

I haven't finished watching, but a Nikko style penalty stroke could have changed the tournament.

 

[seedlings]

For funsies, he took 42+ seconds on hole 8.

 

[robdeforge]

which round? final? timestamp in a youtube video would probably help others to see what you're talking about

 

[biscoe]

Unless you do it over and over again for years no one cares.

 

[seedlings]

which round? final? timestamp in a youtube video would probably help others to see what you're talking about

Final round, 1 hour and 36 minutes into the DGN live coverage.

 

[txmxer]

Unless you do it over and over again for years no one cares.

And for every 15 foot putt on open flat ground...

 

[BogeyNoMore]

Unless you do it over and over again for years no one cares.

^This.

On 2022 DGLO hole 7 I timed Cory Ellis at 1 min 12 seconds to throw. It was at least a few seconds longer before coverage cut to him.

I haven't finished watching, but a Nikko style penalty stroke could have changed the tournament.

Feel free to call him on it, and...good luck making the same card as him.
opcorn:

FWIW, Nikko's history of going over 30 sec is a minor issue.

The bigger issue is how he conducts himself when confronted with anything. THAT'S why he's not playing.

 

[BillFleming]

You want to know the difference between Nikko's penalty for excessive time and Cory's excessive time? Here it is:

Nikko never got called/penalized in the U.S. He got called on it/penalized in Europe.
Cory was playing is a tournament in the U.S.

Ergo....tournaments/players in the U.S. aren't calling rules violations...they look the other way. They might complain later, but they don't DO anything about it. Tournaments/players in Europe DO take action and call penalties.

If Cory had played in the Europe Open and taken that long, I'd guess he would have been called on it. But we will never know. And if Covid hadn't kept U.S. players from playing in Europe, Nikko might have been called on excessive time a lot sooner.

Excessive time and foot faults (I'd bet many of those jump putts are actually illegal - but they are more difficult to prove) are just two violations that seem to be ignored in the U.S..

 

[Jolt]

Most people breaks the 30sec rule when they have a rough lie like Cory had. . and i think most people understands that it takes longer from a difficult lie than from a wide open one.. .

But it is one of those rules that gets broken every round. .just going up to throw, seeing that you should throw a FH. .go to the bag , find the FH disc , go back ..line up and throw- - 30sec is long gone

 

[Hampstead]

JohnE would have said something.

Just ask McBeth.

 

[seedlings]

^This.



Feel free to call him on it, and...good luck making the same card as him.
opcorn:

FWIW, Nikko's history of going over 30 sec is a minor issue.

The bigger issue is how he conducts himself when confronted with anything. THAT'S why he's not playing.

Lol- pretty sure none of the authors of the 30s rule are on lead card. It might surprise you to discover I'm not one of those authors. I'd be fine if the rule was 2 minutes OR 20 seconds… as long as it's one rule for all.

 

[ThrowaEnvy]

Exactly my beef with the 30 seconds rule! It gets broken often, but if you aren't a repeat offender it gets ignored by your group, in part because they may require the same grace at a later time for a tough lie.

I agree with the intent but I think it needs a little rework to not clutter/ ruin the game with people whipping out stopwatches and cell phones.

Maybe you get allowed a 1 min lie for every 9 holes. Or a timeout for every 9 which you can declare...

Should people with mental health issues like an OCD routine be penalized? Do they get a card from their doctor for an exemption? Maybe people that are differently abled (or too old to bend over easily) get penalized because they don't move fast enough.

It should be a rule that is achievable by 90 percent plus of players.

Fwiw I feel 45 seconds is a comfortable pace which most should be able to achieve.

 

[ballgolfconvert]

I won't clutter this thread with my suggestions on the rule changes, they can be seen at the Nikko thread, but basically it shouldn't ever be an issue unless the card is out of position on the course and should cease cease being an issue when the group is back in position.

 

[art_vandelay]

Time violations are like pornography. The exact definition is a bit sketchy but most people know it when they see it. Yes, I know that the actual rule says 30 seconds but that's because the rules folks really had to put a number on it, other wise it's not a rule. People know who the slow players are. Even in local league play, people who take longer than what is customary are given the stink eye and are gossiped about. People may not realize they are playing slow but usually pick things up after a warning. When you continue to play slow after a warning though, you deserve whatever you get.

 

[ChrisWoj]

Even in local league play, people who take longer than what is customary are given the stink eye and are gossiped about. People may not realize they are playing slow but usually pick things up after a warning. When you continue to play slow after a warning though, you deserve whatever you get.

The rule doesn't even matter in these cases. I had a sanctioned singles round a few weekends ago that was a killer in this regard. We had a 4-some. I played with one of my best friends, a second guy I get on well with, and a player with a reputation for being slow. The guy with the reputation for being slow was... fine. He used all of his 30 seconds. Maybe he even exceeded it at some points but it wasn't worth putting a clock to for sanctioned league.

Or at least it wouldn't have been if not for the other two. By the time we got through our third or fourth hole they were in my ear about it. I finally snapped back at one of them about 8 holes in that "I don't give a ****, I'm not playing well enough to pay attention to anything but my own play" after he moaned at me that it was literally "the slowest round of [his] life."

The guy was not that bad, but his rep was just instantly the first thing in their minds.

---
Side story, related to 'that guy' because it's funny in how ridiculous it is. Same round, late, 3 holes to go. I'm over my lie grumbling to myself about how I wish I'd been 10 ft further back. That dude starts talking to me *after I've approached my lie* trying to convince me to throw a sidearm. I told him to shut up and let me throw my shot. After botching my shot I approached him, apologized for snapping at him, and just asked that as soon as he sees me approach my lie - I'm not interested in anything but focusing on my shot. Literally 2 holes later as I approach a birdie putt from 20ish, I just get my foot down behind my mini when he approaches from behind and juts his putter in my face "Hey man look we're twins! I have the same disc!" (as the disc I'd just drove) I just looked at him and said "I do not care about your disc when I'm trying to putt."

*facepalm*

 

[art_vandelay]

Love the above stories, so typical. I learned early on that's it's usually best to not offer advice to anyone during a round unless they ask. But , there are people who simply cannot help themselves, because they suffer from the verbal diarrhea.

 

[BillFleming]

The rule doesn't even matter in these cases. I had a sanctioned singles round a few weekends ago that was a killer in this regard. We had a 4-some. I played with one of my best friends, a second guy I get on well with, and a player with a reputation for being slow. The guy with the reputation for being slow was... fine. He used all of his 30 seconds. Maybe he even exceeded it at some points but it wasn't worth putting a clock to for sanctioned league.

Or at least it wouldn't have been if not for the other two. By the time we got through our third or fourth hole they were in my ear about it. I finally snapped back at one of them about 8 holes in that "I don't give a ****, I'm not playing well enough to pay attention to anything but my own play" after he moaned at me that it was literally "the slowest round of [his] life."

The guy was not that bad, but his rep was just instantly the first thing in their minds.

---
Side story, related to 'that guy' because it's funny in how ridiculous it is. Same round, late, 3 holes to go. I'm over my lie grumbling to myself about how I wish I'd been 10 ft further back. That dude starts talking to me *after I've approached my lie* trying to convince me to throw a sidearm. I told him to shut up and let me throw my shot. After botching my shot I approached him, apologized for snapping at him, and just asked that as soon as he sees me approach my lie - I'm not interested in anything but focusing on my shot. Literally 2 holes later as I approach a birdie putt from 20ish, I just get my foot down behind my mini when he approaches from behind and juts his putter in my face "Hey man look we're twins! I have the same disc!" (as the disc I'd just drove) I just looked at him and said "I do not care about your disc when I'm trying to putt."

*facepalm*

In regards to only the bolded part.....if they had an issue, why didn't THEY call the slow player on it? Sounds like they wanted you to be the 'bad guy' and make the penalty call. That's the issue with the pros....everyone KNOWS there is an issue with excessive time (or other violations), but don't want to be the one to call the player on it.

 

[ChrisWoj]

In regards to only the bolded part.....if they had an issue, why didn't THEY call the slow player on it? Sounds like they wanted you to be the 'bad guy' and make the penalty call. That's the issue with the pros....everyone KNOWS there is an issue with excessive time (or other violations), but don't want to be the one to call the player on it.

LOL. Well they weren't pros. We were technically in the open division for this league but in tourneys they're adv/int players (962, 917, 915). Like I said though - the guy was fine on almost all of his throws. There MIGHT have been a few where he went over, but a) I didn't notice anyway when he WAS slow and b) I didn't have my phone much less a watch. (that last part caused another issue when they wanted me to take over PDGA scoring after the guy scoring DNF'd over it all with 3 holes to go - lol NOPE.)

 

[BogeyNoMore]

In regards to only the bolded part.....if they had an issue, why didn't THEY call the slow player on it? Sounds like they wanted you to be the 'bad guy' and make the penalty call. That's the issue with the pros....everyone KNOWS there is an issue with excessive time (or other violations), but don't want to be the one to call the player on it.

Sounds like folks who think the proverbial "they" need to do everything. No one is willing to be accountable for anything, but they just want it done.

 

[Hampstead]

Don't get me started on rangefinders and how using them is a guaranteed 30 second violation.