Course design frustration.

[Prostar47]

OP, There are many courses in the pittsburgh region that are beginner friendly. As you are more north than a lot of the courses and are new to the scene here, you should tread lightly, considering many people spent countless hours working on a lot of our great courses. the main bulk of our courses has multiple tee pads for all skill levels. If a beginner thinks that they are going to go out and shoot par or better the first time out, then they are playing for the wrong reason and would think that they have the mindset to come back out and try and beat the course. Sports aren't mastered in a day, as you know with your many awards. Come down to Schenley park in Pittsburgh and tell me that it's not a beginner course, or Knob Hill from the red tees. There is a pitch and putt course over in beaver county along with some other 9 hole short courses that are a blast. Before you go and critize the entire Pittsburgh region after helping for a day(Your time is greatly appreciated though) at the new course being built for the PRO WORLDS next year which is geared towards the best players in the world, take some time and play a lot of our other courses further south before making such a broad opinion.

 

[gradus]

Your an idiot.

:thmbup:

 

[optidiscic]

So the course being built for the 2015 Professional Worlds Final Round should be a beginner freindly pitch n putt

OK got it

 

[optidiscic]

I will admit that Pennsylvania does have some very difficult courses and then some very stupid beginner type courses that are not fun nor well thought out (thanks for nothing Eagle Scouts)

There is a shortage of well designed relaxing yet fun beginner only courses

most of the beginner courses are terribly flawed

I still think the OP was writing out of emotion and not rationale

 

[tistoude]

What a ridiculous post by the OP.

Par from Slippery Rock's green tees are 800 rated as was previously stated. Combine that with the fact that the course is pretty much wide open and I am not sure how much more "beginner friendly" (whatever that means) the course can be.

The fence mentioned is not really in play from the green tees and you can easily get a disc back that goes over by just walking around to the entrance of the stadium and going in. It has been open everytime I have played there. Seems pretty straightforward.

 

[davetherocketguy]

I like how there is this assumption that if a course is hard it must not be fun for newbs. This applies to both golf and disc golf IMHO. There is a golf course right in my home town that is tough even by PGA standards. Every 2 years the Senior PGA has their championship there - Harbor Shores. Hardest course you'll probably see anywhere. I've played it a few times and even though I am a hack I think the course is a riot. Same for DG for me anyways. First course I ever played was Oshtemo - from the longs. Since it's really well designed and interesting I had fun and I was hooked from day one. I feel the same way about Meyer Broadway Original course. It's brutally hard but I think if I were a beginner again I would have loved it.

 

[Puckstopper]

Most "Rec" players in real golf usually shoot around 20-30 over par and it doesn't seem to ruin that sport.

I couldn't agree more. I've golfed since I was 10 years old. I am still striving to "only" shoot 20 over par, and I still love golf. Shooting par golf is a major accomplishment that the bulk of players never achieve, but are disciplined enough to constantly strive for.

IMHO course par is overinflated and far to simple to achieve on many disc golf courses. I was shooting below course par within 3 months of learning to play in Bowling Green Ohio, and it led to a casual attitude towards disc golf for me. Why would I buy more that the 2 discs I had? After all, I was shooting below par already, so I was pretty damn good (in my own mind). Adding to my casual attitude was the fact that I rarely lost to anyone in the group I played with in college. Because of those two factors I didn't regard disc golf as anything other than a drinking game until many years later when I played a Michigan course with my brother and his friends. I then actively began seeking out harder courses than I'd played in college, and only playing pro par on those courses. To date I haven't been able to shoot below pro par on Brett Hambrick Memorial, Alum Creek, or Simsbury here in Columbus, but I play all 3 regularly because I relish the challenge and the feeling of accomplishment that I'll have when I succeed. I have regularly shot under pro par on Sunbury and Blendon Woods, and while both are nice courses I don't bother playing either anymore unless I have a specific shot I'm working on or I'm taking new players out.

Wakefield, you need to relax. Whining and calling people idiots are not going to help your cause. The great thing about most disc golf courses is that they're on public land. This means that you could, in theory, make up your own tees anywhere you want, and play the course however you feel like. This is known as safari golf, and is best done on a fairly empty course. However, you could walk up to within 125' of every basket and throw if that's what it takes for you to feel validated when you play this sport. Just don't be surprised when you don't progress as quickly as others who are willing to work harder.

 

[DavidSauls]

The way the courses are designed are killing the sport.

I was lost by the second sentence. Yet one more thing that's holding us back or killing the sport, despite all evidence that it's growing strongly in almost every aspect (except cash for pros). Including, it would seem, the fact that people are constantly building new courses!

 

[Puckstopper]

I take three shots to throw 400ft, and been playing with my putz 200-300 times a day. I been playing for 3 years and I don't have difficulty on courses unless they have trees or holes over 200'. I like to promote the sport by ranting and raving on in internet forum and scare people who have never played before. I get frustrated because I want to quit when I don't shoot well, but don't feel like improving. As for weak mental game you can say that to my college football championship ring(earned as a backup punter/waterboy), my Mma and boxing champion belts(I entered in drag and took home the women's championships. Juwanna Mann for the win!), and my BJ championship trophy (I was in drag for that one too ).

FTFY. :thmbup:opcorn:

 

[BrotherDave]

I agree with OP. That's why all future courses I'm designing will feature a moving sidewalk like at the airport, that goes from tee to a NAGS zone so n00bs are all but guaranteed a 3. :|

 

[DSmith]

3's for everyone! Horray!

 

[chris deitzel]

Have you ever seen how many girls play disc golf in Pittsburgh? There are lots and lots of them. And quite a few that throw farther than most men.

Almost every course has 3 sets of tee. Usually designed for certain ratings levels.

While I agree about the fence issue at SRU, a discussion was made a long time ago about making sure there is a short tee for that hole that will not have throws ending up over the fence.

We also discussed how the course needs to be usable for the Pro World Championships, while at the same time, cater for the beginner, college kids to play every day. Because of this, a few holes were redesigned, and considerations about proper tee levels for the people who would play the course the most were made.

Whereas Moraine has tees set at 900, 950 and 1000 rated levels. SRU will have 800, 900, and 1000 rated tees. Which will allow for all levels of players to play the game.

Also, we don't just play par 3 around here, so maybe your triple bogies are only actually bogies.


Have you ever seen how many girls, and families, and grandparents play Moraine on a daily basis. Yeah it's hard, but it's beautiful. And while they may shoot 30 over par from the short tees, I've never heard one person say they had a bad time playing Moraine.

 

[1978]

.

I think your DG outreach falls apart with this kind of latent sexism. Don't design weak courses for weak girls. Strength and motivation are not the obstacles in the way of introducing women to DG. Women in DG, like all sports, are irritated at being treated differently.

QUOTE]

Paige clearly stated in one of her end of round interviews this year that she was annoyed they had to play from short tee pads. She wanted to play the Men's layout, now most of the woman's field would have struggled and played longer rounds...but I think she was echoing sentiment that the top women had...that they wanted to compete at the same level as the men.

She was also upset that they had inferior tee pads in the short positions.

 

[1978]

I like how there is this assumption that if a course is hard it must not be fun for newbs. This applies to both golf and disc golf IMHO. There is a golf course right in my home town that is tough even by PGA standards. Every 2 years the Senior PGA has their championship there - Harbor Shores. Hardest course you'll probably see anywhere. I've played it a few times and even though I am a hack I think the course is a riot. Same for DG for me anyways. First course I ever played was Oshtemo - from the longs. Since it's really well designed and interesting I had fun and I was hooked from day one. I feel the same way about Meyer Broadway Original course. It's brutally hard but I think if I were a beginner again I would have loved it.

I get the feeling you dont actually like it.

 

[1978]

I agree with OP. That's why all future courses I'm designing will feature a moving sidewalk like at the airport, that goes from tee to a NAGS zone so n00bs are all but guaranteed a 3. :|

Its easier to just label all the holes par 6's. Double eagle baby on that 210'r

 

[chris deitzel]

Also, Moraine, Deer Lakes, Linbrook, SRU, were never designed to be the hardest course in the country or toughest course in the area.

They were designed with set skill levels in mind. Each set of tees were tweaked to play to the correct SSA for the level of players playing.

God tees at Moraine are 1000 rated. When a PDGA event is played, par ends up being 990-1010. Year after year. There was a method to the design.

Same goes for Deer Lakes, Linbrook and SRU. All have certain level tees that the par of the course is built around. We didn't just come up with the par numbers. We played the holes over and over. We kept results or players of different skill levels on all the tees, and then adjusted the pars of the holes to play to the correct skill level.

After years of results, the pars of the holes at Moraine all fall within 0.7 of the par of the hole. Meaning a par 4 plays between 3.3 and 4.7.

Yes, you are right that we don't have any courses where you only throw 100- 200 feet per hole. But we do have numerous layouts between tees and pin positions on every course. They are built for all levels of players. Albeit, they are not the easiest courses for beginners. But as the numbers of players that keep showing up year after year, in larger and larger numbers, tell us that we are not killing the sport.

In fact, many courses designed after Moraine and Deer Lakes, I've heard numerous times from people in other areas, that this course is "Their Moraine" or their "Deer Lakes" Meaning that these courses have made such a positive impact on players and designers, that they strive to achieve the quality that we have built here.

But what do I know, I've only been playing and helping out here for 20+ years.

 

[BrotherDave]

Its easier to just label all the holes par 6's. Double eagle baby on that 210'r

Then you got to deal with those stubborn "everything's a par 3" guys. No thanks.

Besides, the moving sidewalk will help make the course more ADA compliant. :|

 

[1978]

Then you got to deal with those stubborn "everything's a par 3" guys. No thanks.

Besides, the moving sidewalk will help make the course more ADA compliant. :|

What about the "fairways shouldnt be near walking paths" people?
Dont we want to appease them?
What if I set my disc down on the moving sidewalk... does that count as a practice throw?
If you are rated over 967.8 you aren't allowed to use the moving sidewalk. That makes you a walking bagger.
I can't believe "they" installed a moving walking path anyways...right where my 550' drive normally lands.

 

[discgman]

I just think it's too easy to put in a rec course to complain about having a lot of gold level courses. It seems to be relatively easy to get a course installed, and if it's a pitch and putt, all you have to do is mark tees and put in pins.

Omg, you never been to california then. Its as easy as pulling teeth with all the Nimbys that live in the area. We are happy to get any course put in. Last I checked, you do just go out and put markers down in a public park, you need prior approval from some sort of board or committee.

 

[davetherocketguy]

I get the feeling you dont actually like it.