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Des Blasts Worlds
- Thread starter Aaron_D
- Start date
some call me...tim?
Double Eagle Member
Animix said:
Des might be able to bomb it, but I think she's also got the technical game too. Just watching the Marshall Steet DVDs, most of those hole look pretty tight and technical, and she's the reigning champ.
black udder
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asdf said:
LOL
Just went to the trouble of looking up the AM Mens and Open Womens stats in a few tourney's and have come to the conclusion that the women do, indeed, suck.
My only stand on this is that the women should be able to tee off wherever the hell they want. It's a stroke count and I don't believe that distance will suddenly make an 800 player competitive with a 950 rated player. It is what it is - until there are more higher rated women, Des and the like will run away with the field.
garublador1
* Ace Member *
Rating doesn't have anything to do with an "Open" division. If there's no rating cap, the division should play from the hardest tees.
Star Shark
* Ace Member *
I have to say I was really stunned when I first started checking the pro tournament scores. Guys do generally throw farther, yes, but that doesn't account for the 30 stroke diff there often is between mens and womens divisions. Hell, Des probably out throws a number of pro men. I'm not really sure what accounts for this. Perhaps is just that men have a stronger innate sense of aggression. We go harder at everything, women don'[ seem to go that route.
-- Animix
-- Animix
Jerry r
Eagle Member
Hopefully what will happen is the sport will grow to such an extent that women and men will play in different cities on the same weekend as they do on the PGA/LPGA. That way, if they play different/shorter tees the comparison won't be so obvious.
I see nothing wrong with the women playing shorter tees. THEY ARE DIFFERNT PHYSIOLOGICALLY. Why should they have to play more difficult courses fhan the men. Yes when the averge pro woman's drive is 30% shorter (300ft vs 400ft) than average pro man's, the course IS more difficult. Shortening the courses will make the field (as it is doing in this year's worlds) more competitive. I don't think the underwhelming numbers of pro women is an endorsement of the way things are currently done.
I see nothing wrong with the women playing shorter tees. THEY ARE DIFFERNT PHYSIOLOGICALLY. Why should they have to play more difficult courses fhan the men. Yes when the averge pro woman's drive is 30% shorter (300ft vs 400ft) than average pro man's, the course IS more difficult. Shortening the courses will make the field (as it is doing in this year's worlds) more competitive. I don't think the underwhelming numbers of pro women is an endorsement of the way things are currently done.
black udder
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The only problem with that argument that I see is that we're comparing the men's game to the women's game. You say that the course is harder for the women than the men, but it's like that 100% of the time for the women - that's what they're used to - so if they get a 5 and the men get a 3, that's just the way it is.
I don't see it as being more difficult for them, but just different.
Is the expectation for the scores for the pro men and women to be the same? Or for the course to be competitive within the field?
After watching the interview, I think she's spot on - the course isn't bad, she just doesn't consider it a "world's" course. Sadly, I guess none of the courses in my area are either (except perhaps The Grange).
I don't see it as being more difficult for them, but just different.
Is the expectation for the scores for the pro men and women to be the same? Or for the course to be competitive within the field?
After watching the interview, I think she's spot on - the course isn't bad, she just doesn't consider it a "world's" course. Sadly, I guess none of the courses in my area are either (except perhaps The Grange).
roadkill1
Double Eagle Member
I have not bothered to read every post on this thread. However I am very informed about what she said and believe I understand the point she is trying to make. I am also familiar with the courses with the exception of the Woodland-Bear course.
My thoughts are these:
-The courses are very fair (atleast Blueberry Hill, Highbridge Gold and Granite Ridge) regardless of which tees are played.
-All WPO play the same courses from the same tees under the same conditions.
-Seeing that Des's scores were 58 68 and 60 I certainly wouldn't call them pitch and putt even from the white tees. If she's averaging around 62 the courses while shortened are not too easy for her.
-While Des is a decent human being and a very skilled player, I believe it was in poor judgement to be so critical on a live broadcast. As the highest rated woman Des shot rather poorly and reportedly even four putted one hole. Her frustration in not performing I believe has turned into sour grapes public comments that discredits Angela's superior play and really is unbecoming of someone that is deemed a professional. There are more appropriate channels to express her displeasure. This is not the first time she has been extremely critical of event organizers. Nor is it a first time for her to air her dirty laundry in such a public fashion.
-I can tell you shortening tees is a practice Chuck Kennedy has done before. Personally I believe he is allotted entirely too much unchecked control in these types of layout decisions. The same kind of thing happened at the 2005 Worlds in Allentown. We had four courses that the local clubs worked very hard for a very long time to prepare for the Worlds. Then Chuck rolls in and wants to change everything. Move tee pads, move pins make things OB, remove the OB from other areas that should be OB. On top of that he wanted the Grandmasters to play from shortened teepads. Guess what? He was competing in Grandmasters and was the only one that was in favor of the shortened layout. Chuck has a weenie arm and wanted his entire division to play from short pads when everyone else was like WTF?
In conclusion regardless of where the Women should have shot from, Des really should have shown more tact and self control than to rant, whine and attribute other player's scores to luck. She shot poorly and she is really starting to act more and more like Brad Hammock (not a good thing).
My thoughts are these:
-The courses are very fair (atleast Blueberry Hill, Highbridge Gold and Granite Ridge) regardless of which tees are played.
-All WPO play the same courses from the same tees under the same conditions.
-Seeing that Des's scores were 58 68 and 60 I certainly wouldn't call them pitch and putt even from the white tees. If she's averaging around 62 the courses while shortened are not too easy for her.
-While Des is a decent human being and a very skilled player, I believe it was in poor judgement to be so critical on a live broadcast. As the highest rated woman Des shot rather poorly and reportedly even four putted one hole. Her frustration in not performing I believe has turned into sour grapes public comments that discredits Angela's superior play and really is unbecoming of someone that is deemed a professional. There are more appropriate channels to express her displeasure. This is not the first time she has been extremely critical of event organizers. Nor is it a first time for her to air her dirty laundry in such a public fashion.
-I can tell you shortening tees is a practice Chuck Kennedy has done before. Personally I believe he is allotted entirely too much unchecked control in these types of layout decisions. The same kind of thing happened at the 2005 Worlds in Allentown. We had four courses that the local clubs worked very hard for a very long time to prepare for the Worlds. Then Chuck rolls in and wants to change everything. Move tee pads, move pins make things OB, remove the OB from other areas that should be OB. On top of that he wanted the Grandmasters to play from shortened teepads. Guess what? He was competing in Grandmasters and was the only one that was in favor of the shortened layout. Chuck has a weenie arm and wanted his entire division to play from short pads when everyone else was like WTF?
In conclusion regardless of where the Women should have shot from, Des really should have shown more tact and self control than to rant, whine and attribute other player's scores to luck. She shot poorly and she is really starting to act more and more like Brad Hammock (not a good thing).
Will Aubrey
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I don't think Des was rude. She was just blunt. And she didn't say the course was too easy because it was too short. Her primary criticism was that it was a luck course rather than a technical course. And it was the Woodland Bear course she was criticising.
I think the hole she four putted was the one with the basket in a frickin tree. The basket was slanted and her first putt which was dead on spilled out the back. That hole is just ludicrous. The course is a gimmicky putt-putt style course. You may as well try to throw it in a clown's mouth.
I think the hole she four putted was the one with the basket in a frickin tree. The basket was slanted and her first putt which was dead on spilled out the back. That hole is just ludicrous. The course is a gimmicky putt-putt style course. You may as well try to throw it in a clown's mouth.
roadkill1
Double Eagle Member
She very well may have a valid point.
I just think her venting on a live broadcast is in poor taste and is not only unproductive but will only hurt her image. When you consider her previous public criticism of TDs concerning payouts she is really starting to develop some bad PR habits. With her involvement with the EDGE program and other PR work she does with schools she has to realize she does have the burden of being a role model. Public criticism of event organizers is not a good practice for role models.
I just think her venting on a live broadcast is in poor taste and is not only unproductive but will only hurt her image. When you consider her previous public criticism of TDs concerning payouts she is really starting to develop some bad PR habits. With her involvement with the EDGE program and other PR work she does with schools she has to realize she does have the burden of being a role model. Public criticism of event organizers is not a good practice for role models.
zealot
Double Eagle Member
haha maybe Des doesn't give a F#@& what any of you think. 
just a thought.
and trees all over fairways does make for a 'lucky' course.
the 4 putted hole was with a basket hangin inbetween 3 trees 8 ft off the ground? (and tilted). hardly a professional looking hole.
just a thought.and trees all over fairways does make for a 'lucky' course.
the 4 putted hole was with a basket hangin inbetween 3 trees 8 ft off the ground? (and tilted). hardly a professional looking hole.
black udder
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Her comment about that course was that it wasn't a course to show off the best the pro's have to offer. She did say the other courses were great. She even said that Bear was a great rec course.
I agree with the luck factor - I've seen a few holes like that and don't care for them. Having a whole course like that would be depressing. When you throw the right shot, hit the fairway and bounce of a tree in the middle of the fairway you can't plan for off the tee and are thrust into the shule so deep you have no shot out, it's not really fair.
I don't believe she said anything about any other players good scores and her only complaint about her scores was the difference from round to round - I think she had a 49 and a 67 or something - and she was saying that the disparity (in her opinion) showed that something was wrong.
Now - if she - a pro - doesn't say anything about these courses when they're not up to snuff, who will? What better place than an interview where folks will actually here it. Look at all of our discussion from it? If it was a post on the pdga board, it probably wouldn't go anywhere. There are no other real places to make these type of comments.
I think, considering she was just coming off the course, she did a great job of holding her temper in check and not ranting.
I agree with the luck factor - I've seen a few holes like that and don't care for them. Having a whole course like that would be depressing. When you throw the right shot, hit the fairway and bounce of a tree in the middle of the fairway you can't plan for off the tee and are thrust into the shule so deep you have no shot out, it's not really fair.
I don't believe she said anything about any other players good scores and her only complaint about her scores was the difference from round to round - I think she had a 49 and a 67 or something - and she was saying that the disparity (in her opinion) showed that something was wrong.
Now - if she - a pro - doesn't say anything about these courses when they're not up to snuff, who will? What better place than an interview where folks will actually here it. Look at all of our discussion from it? If it was a post on the pdga board, it probably wouldn't go anywhere. There are no other real places to make these type of comments.
I think, considering she was just coming off the course, she did a great job of holding her temper in check and not ranting.
the invisible tree
Eagle Member
Des kicks ass! Now all we need is for someone to say she should build her own course and run her own events if she doesn't like it and the thread will be complete.
zealot
Double Eagle Member
the invisible tree said:
rofl
Fritz said:
I know this is off topic, but Annika missed her cut, too. (I do know my golf)
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/golf/pga/2003-05-23-colonial_x.htm
Yes, Michelle Wie missed her cut too, although I do believe she was closer than Annika was. Too bad she can't play now, but I bet she'll come back eventually.
Will Aubrey said:
Play in the US Championships and you will... :wink:
Koronin
Par Member
Three things that come to my mind:
Everyone that she's competing against played the same layout.
There's no luck in this sport, simply good kicks and bad kicks.
There's a time and place for everything, during and at the event was not that time.
While she made some very good points as a whole, the timing and how it came across looks like sour grapes.
Everyone that she's competing against played the same layout.
There's no luck in this sport, simply good kicks and bad kicks.
There's a time and place for everything, during and at the event was not that time.
While she made some very good points as a whole, the timing and how it came across looks like sour grapes.
black udder
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koronin said:
1) They only interviewed her and the current leader. So saying everyone played it doesn't mean that everybody else loved it
2) There is SO much luck in this game. Good/bad kicks come when you hit trees - typically *off* the fairway. Her gripe was hitting trees in the fairway. Valid if you ask me, but it all depends on how many and where.
3) Although I agree there's a time and a place for things, who is going to ask her after the tournament? Probably nobody. Second, just as a trial lawyer learns - don't ask a question you don't know the answer to. DGTV was there, it doesn't take much to put yourself in her shoes, so they picked a bad time to ask that specific question.
All in all - she was honest, but not derogative or mean.
It is interesting how far each way opinion swing on this issue
MDR_3000
Eagle Member
Ok, it seems I'm the only one on here that has played Woodland Bear. It is not a luck course. If there are trees in the fairway it's a big tree (easily avoidable) and the holes that this happens on are only 160 - 180 feet. It's not like you're throwing down a 400' fairway and have to avoid this tree at 350'.
But the basket in the tree was kind of dumb.
But the basket in the tree was kind of dumb.
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