Designing my own discs

[Kellermeyer14]

I'd like to start manufacturing my own discs. I have a good understanding of the physics of discs, but as far as manufacturing goes...I'd rather not re-invent the wheel.

Does anyone have anyadvice on molds, plastics, etc.? Any advice would be much appreciated.

 

[mickas]

almost everything has been done or tried, and what you see being sold the most is obviously the way that people are leaning, so i'd say if your starting out try to make maybe two drivers, one midrange, and one putter, the midrange and putter fairly stable, one stable driver, and maybe a slightly overstable driver.

It sounds lame and boring but it's how you have to start off, look at Latitude 64. they started this way and they're slowly making their way up, if your going to be innovative be prepared to advertise because no ones going to want to buy a disc that looks strange or if they are uncertain of what it will do if they can stick with the old molds their used to throwing.

If you come out with a disc that flies similar to say a Teebird, it could be a big hit because people are often looking for alternatives to discs they already have that are just slightly different, because they're always curious if it will fly just a little better then the one they have

Just my advice though, i'm no salesman, it's your company do you what you feel will do well

 

[Ryan P.]

how would you go about manufacturing your own discs?

 

[Hamilton]

I'd like to start manufacturing my own discs. I have a good understanding of the physics of discs, but as far as manufacturing goes...I'd rather not re-invent the wheel.

Does anyone have anyadvice on molds, plastics, etc.? Any advice would be much appreciated.

i will test throw them for you since i'm local...if you let me keep the good ones...LOL

 

[STSgoalie]

I will drive down to louisville to test them!!! lol As far as marketing start off with making some nice putters. I know vibram is doing this and letting people test them and the word is spreading now about how good there plastic is and the molds are flying really well.

 

[sidewinder22]

Your best bet is to start off with is designing the disc and have one of the big companies mold them for you in manufacturing. If your design is really good they might buy it off you. Otherwise you have to get the equipment, factory, and know how to work the equipment, fix it, or hire people that do know. All that stuff can be an expensive investment to start and maintain. Once you have some success with the design and developed a market, you would have more money to invest in the manufacturing process if you still desired to.

 

[Kellermeyer14]

Thanks for the input. I was definitely looking at starting with a solid foundation of discs that fly very similar to the most popular innova and discraft discs, like the tee bird and the buzzz, and then starting to get a little more innovative. Maybe like Quest AT and Aerobie. After all that's Innova started... hence the name, "Innova"tion

And as far as marketing goes, it would totally be a grass-roots marketing campaign; starting on forums like this and coming to league nights at local dg courses and giving away a few free discs to people who would test throw and give feedback.

 

[BrotherDave]

Be sure to give us a discount when you're a self-made disc mogul.

 

[Meulen]

The first thing I can tell you is that it is going to be very expensive. I am currently going to school for plastics engineering so I know the basics of machines, materials, cost, etc. Lets just say you wanted to start out in your garage. You are going to need an injection molding machine. Because the average diameter of a disc is around 9 inches you need to do a little calulating to find the right size machine (Surface area of the part multipled by 2.5). This is around 160 tons so you could probably go with a used 200 ton machine for around $10000. Creating the mold is probably going to be the most expensive part. You wouldnt believe how much engineering goes into them with the ejection, proper cooling, shrink factors, etc. This would have to be a single cavity mold, or you would have to be a larger machine to accomodate a larger mold with more cavities. And if your design is slightly off the first time, your going to pay an arm and a leg to have it welded and repaired. Depending on the complexity of the design, the cost of the tool (mold) itself could be in the tens of thousands of dollars, or more. On top of both of these expenses you have to pay for material, labor, and the power to run it all. You could probably find a material for less than a dollar a pound. At a little under a half pound a disc that would cost $.50 in material. Then lets add $.50 for labor and processing cost per disc, and distribute the cost of the machine and actual mold over an entire lot of discs. Basically, you are going to have to make thousands of discs just to break even if you are going to start from scratch, and that is per mold. The cycle time on a product like this would probably be around a minute, so you could make a good amount of discs in a day, assuming there is no down time for machine repairs and other unforseen problems. The best thing I could advise you to do would be to come up with a design and speak with some engineers to determine the shrink factors, cooling, and mold flow needed to create a proper flying disc. Then find a local tooling company, and have them give you a qoute on the price of a mold. Your best bet is going to then send the mold to a company that will use there machine to mold the parts for you. There are also many companies that will help you create your design, troubleshoot it, and mold it for you all at their facility. It's not impossible, but it would be a challenge. Let me know if you have any specific questions and I can try to answer them for you.

 

[Adaven]

It seems like it would be to expensive to be realistic.

 

[BrotherDave]

Too bad you can't just melt down plastic bottles into a disc shape.

 

[Adaven]

Too bad you can't just melt down plastic bottles into a disc shape.

actually that sounds like an interesting idea.

 

[Kellermeyer14]

Thanks for the input and enthusiasm

As Emerson once said, "Nothing great has ever been achieved without enthusiasm." and a lot of money.

I added that last part.

Money shouldn't be a problem. I have investors I could go to. It's just a matter of convincing them I could make a profit in two or three years time.

 

[MDethCKR]

...really ?

 

[SoCalDg'r]

Hey man, life is to short go big or go home. Just do it all under an LLC so if it goes belly up you dont ruin you credit or personal finances. I dont know about melting plastic into the shape of a isc, i would try throwin a blank round of plastic on a wood lathe and tooling it first, lol

 

[scarpfish]

I've been told by some folks that it costs the disc manufacturers around $40K just to come up with a new mold. Also it needs to be pointed out that you need to submit discs to the PDGA to get them approved for sanctioned tournament play. Without this, the marketability of your discs is rendered to a pittance.

You are almost certainly going to have plenty of reject product coming off the line that you can't sell. There is marketing and testing involved. There are also issues with patents and you don't want to be stepping on the other companies toes, so that's likely going to result in legal costs.

I know some of us just look at the finished product when we buy a new disc and think, man, what a simple product, I could make that, and we often don't realize that there's a lot more science to our simple little discs than we probably would realize.

Face it, grass roots isn't going to cut it.

 

[Fore]

i will test throw them for you since i'm local...if you let me keep the good ones...LOL

I would also like to test throw and provide feedback if needed.

 

[Huk Finn]

PM me, I can tell you how they fly in the Northern California climate....DeLaveaga top of the world.

 

[hippiediscdude]

Too bad you can't just melt down plastic bottles into a disc shape.

I thought about this, but after some research and experimenting the end result was less than satisfying. The plastic used for bottles is really different from the plastic used for discs. The process used for discs is very differnt from the one used to create bottles. The plastic is very brittle and stiff when it is remelted. It also out gasses some pretty toxic stuff when you melt it.

The molds are expensive to get made, and the equipment is pretty expensive. Injection mold machines like the disc companies use are huge expensive pieces of equipment. There are benchtop Injection mold presses, but they seem to be geared torwards making smaller parts. Heres a link:
http://www.injectionmolder.net/
Some one told me that Gateway has a Benchtop rig that they make putters with but I have never seen it in action.

Bio-plastics might be a option you might want to look at. You can make up some starch based plastics in your kitchen pretty easily. You can fool around with the plastics strength and flexibility by fooling around with the amounts of ingredients you use. Check this out.
http://www.instructables.com/id/Make-Potato-Plastic!/
I fooled around with this a little. Its hard to get the plastic to release from the mold, and you have to thermoset it. Its a cheap way to get started playing with plastics though.

I was thinking about making Bio-degradable minis so if you spaced them they would just biodegrade.

Good luck man. Keep us posted with your progress.

 

[solomon.trenton]

I thought about this, but after some research and experimenting the end result was less than satisfying. The plastic used for bottles is really different from the plastic used for discs. The process used for discs is very differnt from the one used to create bottles. The plastic is very brittle and stiff when it is remelted. It also out gasses some pretty toxic stuff when you melt it.

The molds are expensive to get made, and the equipment is pretty expensive. Injection mold machines like the disc companies use are huge expensive pieces of equipment. There are benchtop Injection mold presses, but they seem to be geared torwards making smaller parts. Heres a link:
http://www.injectionmolder.net/
Some one told me that Gateway has a Benchtop rig that they make putters with but I have never seen it in action.

Bio-plastics might be a option you might want to look at. You can make up some starch based plastics in your kitchen pretty easily. You can fool around with the plastics strength and flexibility by fooling around with the amounts of ingredients you use. Check this out.
http://www.instructables.com/id/Make-Potato-Plastic!/
I fooled around with this a little. Its hard to get the plastic to release from the mold, and you have to thermoset it. Its a cheap way to get started playing with plastics though.

I was thinking about making Bio-degradable minis so if you spaced them they would just biodegrade.

Good luck man. Keep us posted with your progress.

that is some really interesting stuff.