DGPT: 2020 The Preserve Championship July 3-5

[Cgkdisc]

Buncr with LOP relief is not a real rule, and never will be because of the possibility that LOP may not actually offer a lie. Relief Area (no-penalty OB) does essentially the same thing, except the player relocates the lie according to the OB rules (last point not in the Relief Area). Usually, that will be a similar location as LOP relief because players are usually trying to throw over the sand trap.

It's a failure on the part of the RC to recognize that LOP relief should be the primary option for the Relief Area rule with last point inbounds or drop zone as alternatives IF LOP relief was not possible. Determining last point your disc was inbounds before entering the relief area many times is much harder to judge anyway. LOP usually not difficult and parallels the casual relief area LOP relief option. LOP relief or drop zone provide the appropriate distance penalty which is the intended purpose of buncrs versus an automatic stroke penalty.

 

[biscoe]

Wait, do you think there is a case where a player is allowed extra time to gauge the wind?

Not ARay but no... or at least there should not be. As the rules are currently there effectively is no enforceable time limit.

 

[Steve West]

Not ARay but no... or at least there should not be. As the rules are currently there effectively is no enforceable time limit.

Why is it not possible for card mates to give a slow player an Excessive Time warning (which carries no penalty)?

 

[pmay5]

From what I understand, Cale got the property on a lease to buy (land contract?) to see how it will work out. He quickly got two courses ready for pay-to-play with portable pads and virtually no landscape tweaking. The Black Bear was a hybrid of the two daily courses but still no tweaking. When I was there a month ago, his wife had said the plan was to eventually plant or relocate trees to make the terrain more disc golf like with natural hazards and obstacles. Just not enough time to do some of these things before planning this event. Hopefully, these early successes will encourage Cale to take the next steps towards a more terrain rich set of courses and tournament temp layout he envisioned when coming upon this property opportunity.

I hope this trend continues, golf courses closing and becoming DG courses. A couple closed here in the Raleigh area, one about 15 years ago and another about 5 years ago. They both tried to sell their property to homebuilders, but the homeowners on the courses pulled out their covenants and said, No Way! They had to keep the land open. So, finally an Environmental group stepped in on the recent one and bought the property, then the County bought it from them, and then gave it, no charge, to the local town! They plan to use it for park land and an Elem school. Good news is the local club (CADL) is working with them and has made site visits to put a DG course in on about a third or half the property. Should be an awesome course. Bad thing for me, its on the other side of Raleigh from me! :wall:

The other course, much closer to me, would make a great DG course, even had a Par 6 opening hole! Anyone know if Cale wants to invest in another property in Wake Forest, NC? :thmbup:

 

[Rastnav]

They plan to use it for park land and an Elem school. Good news is the local club (CADL) is working with them and has made site visits to put a DG course in on about a third or half the property. Should be an awesome course. Bad thing for me, its on the other side of Raleigh from me! :wall:

Are you talking about Hilltop-Needmore Town Park on the old Crooked Creek course? Or something else?

I assume the other is Wake Forest Country Club?

 

[pmay5]

Are you talking about Hilltop-Needmore Town Park on the old Crooked Creek course? Or something else?

I assume the other is Wake Forest Country Club?

Yes, 2 for 2, you are 100% from Circle1 !!

 

[Plankeye]

Why is it not possible for card mates to give a slow player an Excessive Time warning (which carries no penalty)?

"Clear and free of distractions" is why...all a player has to do is claim there was a distraction (other than mother nature).

 

[biscoe]

Why is it not possible for card mates to give a slow player an Excessive Time warning (which carries no penalty)?

..because distraction is inadequately defined and left to the sole discretion of the player.

 

[teemkey]

I think it's reasonable to allot a player a minute or two to empty a full bladder between holes. But some people disagree.

 

[araytx]

araytx, I hear you about making a long Par 3, it would be exciting to see a bomber attack it. But for the sake of the medium arm crowd touring pro I'd rather see 750 par 4. Medium arms can throw 375' easily. Either player can score there, while the 500 foot par 3, the medium/short arm is going to layup and take par 99% of the time.

Still saying that, having one hole on the course like that I feel is OK. A bomber 500 foot par 3 hole that is.

Yes. But the 750' open par 4 is so awfully short that the "scoring average" will be a half-stroke below par, primarily for the biggest arms. And even an average arm gets the birdie most of the time if he can putt. I am an old man and can throw 375 accurately most of the time. Those (holes) are the problems. As Eagle McMahon did (twice I recall) he can make two BAD throws and still get the birdie because his bad throws were really really far.

Wait, do you think there is a case where a player is allowed extra time to gauge the wind?

Uh, no. Steve, you missed that I was trying to show Bill F that I was contradicting his statement that the wind gauging time shouldn't count against the 30 seconds.

Why is it not possible for card mates to give a slow player an Excessive Time warning (which carries no penalty)?

It is. and it happens, at least in my rounds. I would have given Nikko that informal warning, just between the two of us, early in the round -- maybe at least twice -- before I'd call it during the round.

I think it's reasonable to allot a player a minute or two to empty a full bladder between holes. But some people disagree.

Really?

 

[araytx]

"Clear and free of distractions" is why...all a player has to do is claim there was a distraction (other than mother nature).

The clear and free of distractions is not a problem being undefined; it can be at the thrower's discretion... because the time limit for excessive time is specifically and well-defined. Players should just enforce it -- or we need to get rid of the rule.

 

[Steve West]

..because distraction is inadequately defined and left to the sole discretion of the player.

No, it is left to the discretion of all the players on the card. They know - better than anyone - what is a distraction and what is not.

Any player on the card can give an Excessive Time warning, and because there is no penalty throw involved the call does not need to be seconded nor does the thrower need to agree with it. (Of course, it can be withdrawn if the caller is convinced the call was made in error. "A bird pooped on me. See?") Otherwise, it just goes on the books.

The slow thrower is made aware there is a rule and that the rule will be enforced - at no cost to the slow player.

The next time a player calls an Excessive Time violation, if any other player seconds it, the thrower gets a penalty throw.

In theory. I've never seen a next time. Not once in my experience has a player ever failed to throw within 30 seconds on any future throw after an ET warning has been issued. It's amazing to watch when someone decides that all that extra inner contemplation suddenly doesn't seem so important.

Sure, if the ET call is made the thrower can LATER appeal to the TD, but I wouldn't want to be the player trying to make a case that there were a lot of cases where there were more than 30 seconds of distraction - but only when I was ready to throw.

 

[Plankeye]

The clear and free of distractions is not a problem being undefined; it can be at the thrower's discretion... because the time limit for excessive time is specifically and well-defined. Players should just enforce it -- or we need to get rid of the rule.

Yes but that time limit can't start until it is "clear and free from distractions" and that determination is at the sole discretion of the player who is about to throw/putt

 

[brutalbrutus]

Its not hard to come up with a valid distraction when there are a couple dozen spectators in your field of vision...


Who cares if he takes an extra 10 sec here and there to putt? He's generally one of the faster players on the tee and fairway. So its all relative.

 

[Rastnav]

Are you talking about Hilltop-Needmore Town Park on the old Crooked Creek course? Or something else?

I assume the other is Wake Forest Country Club?

I'm new to all this, so I had no idea the Triangle was getting a new ball golf conversion. I think the only other one is UNC? And there isn't all that much left of the old course, I guess 7 of the the now 19 holes.

I played Crooked Creek many a time back in the day. It will be very interesting to see what it becomes as a disc course.

 

[Casey 1988]

I'm new to all this, so I had no idea the Triangle was getting a new ball golf conversion. I think the only other one is UNC? And there isn't all that much left of the old course, I guess 7 of the the now 19 holes.

I played Crooked Creek many a time back in the day. It will be very interesting to see what it becomes as a disc course.

I think a Traditional 9 hole Golf course got a conversion in Illinois somewhere, the course was in a Neighborhood that became poorer and/or younger over time so nobody could afford the Traditional Golf or wanted to even play Traditional Golf, rather Disc Golf came up. I saw the course On YouTube in 2017.

 

[runningoz]

Down around St. Louis (Swansea, IL) Eric McCabe designed/installed a conversion course for the city. Plant some trees and in 20 years it will be epic. Right now it's a good course but just a lot of bomber holes.

 

[araytx]

Yes but that time limit can't start until it is "clear and free from distractions" and that determination is at the sole discretion of the player who is about to throw/putt

Correct. But once the player starts their routine, they have de facto stated that the area is clear and free of distractions. And the clock starts.

 

[cheesethin]

Yes but that time limit can't start until it is "clear and free from distractions" and that determination is at the sole discretion of the player who is about to throw/putt

It's not at the player's sole determination. The card as a whole determines whether something is a valid distraction or not.

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[biscoe]

It's not at the player's sole determination. The card as a whole determines whether something is a valid distraction or not.

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source?