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Disc Angle and Arm Plane Question

Darth Anovin

Eagle Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2010
Messages
870
Location
The Isle of Doldrums
It seems like so far for me that in this sport when you find answers, they only lead to more questions. Here's where I'm at. I understand the disc angle aspect, as far as throwing a disc on a hyzer or anhyzer angle. But with most cases the disc will do it for you right? Example if my arm strength maxes out at a Wraith and I throw it flat, it will hyzer. Same for a Roadrunner. It will anhyzer. I know that if I throw these discs flat they will do what they are supposed to. I'm not gonna turn the Wraith over and the Roadrunner won't hyzer out. I got that far. But let's say I want to put a little more hyzer on my Wraith. I know that I need to tilt the side of the disc down. Finally here's my question: To properly execute this throw, should I pull the disc flat through like I normally would, or throw with more of an upward angle? Same goes for the opposite way. With my Roadrunner, to throw it with more anny, do I pull flat across my chest, or throw high to low? Thanks in advance.
 
If your arm speed maxes out at a wraith, it doesn't fly on a "hyzer" but actually should turn slightly and then fade hard when slowing down.

To adjust hyzer/anhyzer angles, your pull should be the same, and this includes not tipping the disc one way or the other but more about your body plane in its entirety being tipped in that angle. The disc alone is a form of using OAT because you really want everything on the same plane.

Foghorn can probably explain this really well when he gets on.
 
To get a hyzer to really hold the hyzer angle you need to follow through high. For an anny you need to follow through low. If you follow through straight around you are basically telling the disc to pull out of the angle and go straight.
 
when you say you throw it flat and the wraith hyzers, you are incorrect.

Hyzer/anhyzer is the angle of the disc at release.

If you throw a disc flat and it goes left during the flight (RHBH) thats called FADE.

If you throw it flat and it goes right (RHBH) thats called TURN.

I used to think the same thing as you.
 
Throwing flat is good but some people get stuck on throwing every shot flat. There are some shots that are not possible by throwing flat with neutral nose angle. There is good info on DGR about this.

Try throwing your Roadrunner on pure hyzer lines (holds hyzer all the way, no flip). Even if it's a little worn, it's possible. Throw it a little nose up and give it plenty of height (like you were saying, more upward angle). Learning how to throw hyzer with understable plastic will teach you a LOT about throwing.

Hyzer shots with understable discs give you lines that you cannot achieve with more stable stuff. Stable plastic seems to fly on more symmetrical lines when thrown on a hyzer. Understable gives you more of a long arc (parabola?) with an apex closer to you than the landing area.
 
To adjust hyzer/anhyzer angles, your pull should be the same, and this includes not tipping the disc one way or the other but more about your body plane in its entirety being tipped in that angle. The disc alone is a form of using OAT because you really want everything on the same plane.

Spot on, here. Releasing hyzer and anhyzer is about body angle with the disc position staying relatively the same through all throws. This greatly improves consistency as the motion on a hyzer is the same as on a flat throw which is the same as an anhyzer.

The advice you've heard about pulling low and ending high on hyzers (and the reverse for anhyzers) is true to some degree, but its not as simple as always pulling low and ending high for hyzers. If you're wanting a true hyzer shot then, yes, you need to pull low and end high (as that forces a higher throw) but if, say, you're wanting to throw a hyzer flip, you will basically pull neutral and end neutral and the tilt of your body on the hyzer angle will cause it to flatten. Make sense?
 
I don't know too much about OAT (which really, is what your question concerns) but I do know that it's not always bad and that you can learn to use it to your advantage. You can create some really unique lines.

If you're simply trying to throw an anhyzer or hyzer you want all the torque (rotational force around axis) to be centered or unified, if you will.
 
Now looka here son, its best to learn to throw flat, but not always the best choice on the course. Its much easier to control your hyzer and anny angles cause if you flub those angles it won't matter as much as flubbing a flat shot. The angles you choose to put on the disc are more important than the disc's natural tendencies.

Reachback angle should be in a straight line through the apex of the shot line. This is also known as telegraphing the shot. So on a hyzer line you will reachback toward the back left of the teepad and the height of the reachback will depend on how high you want to throw. So once the disc reaches the apex of the flight it will begin its fade to the ground. So you are not really aiming at the target, but aiming to the apex of the flight path. For annys your reachback should be toward the rear right of the teepad and again the height of the reachback will depend on how high you want it.

Your body position at the hit on the tee pad will quite different for hyzer and anny, because you will pulling the disc in a straight line from reachback to the apex, not the target. So you will be facing more toward the target on hyzer and facing more away from the target on anny. You should be able to draw a line from the disc on reachback, through the shoulder to the apex of the shot. There's a great picture Scott Stokely shows of this, but can't find it.

When learning to throw flat you get used to keeping the shoulders level. When learning to throw hyzer or anny you should be adjusting your shoulders to the shot. On hyzer you should drop the right shoulder like / and the shoulders should rotate on that plane, this also makes that low reachback easier. Same thing for anny shoulders should be angled more \ and rotate on that plane. If you watch Nikko he really plays his angles well.

Any angle that is off line with telegraphing to the apex is introducing oat. Some oat is worse than others, and in some cases oat will help you hit a different line. A pure hyzer shot has the least angles involved and is therefore the most predictable shot and why most pros throw is so often.


PREPARING TO THROW - by Ken Climo

What should you be thinking about before the tee shot? Only the conditions: your footing, the tees, OB, the turf (will it make the disc skip?), and wind. You want to be a ware of all the factors that are going to make your disc move. Also you want to visualize the shot within these conditions. Whatever your favorite way to work a disc is (hyzer, anhyser, or flat), you need to see the disc thrown perfectly through the given airspace.

Get your body in line on the tee pad depending on the type of throw. Come at the tee at an angle. If you're for an anhyzer drive, you're starting at the right rear corner and your body and disc will end up in the front left corner of the tee pad. For a hyzer shot, you're starting at the left rear corner and your body and disc are going to end up at the right front corner. This is key in getting a good shot going. Your creating the angle you desire. If a straight shot is the best route, I'll start with a touch of hyzer to prevent the disc from flipping over and go straight down the middle of the tee.

On an anhyzer shot, don't bend at the waist. Arch high in the back under your shoulder blades. This gets your shoulders lined up for the left-to-right downward motion of a turnover. In a hyzer, your bring your arm upward.

Here's on more tip on disc angle: any time you introduce an angle to a drive, the disc will be more difficult to control. The hyzer drive is the most controllable simply because it is not changing an angle. But learning to throw a disc flat is one of the most important skills for any golfer to learn. All of the possible turns and variations are only slight angles. If you want to hyzer, you change it slightly one way. If you want to turn it over, you change it slightly the other way.


ROLLING YOUR WRIST AND FOLLOW-THROUGH - by Ken Climo

The following tips are helpful to help add distance and accuracy to tee shots. Whether 10, 50 or 100 feet of distance are added, the direction the disc goes is equally important. This piece will address three different flight patterns that can be achieved by the movement or "rolling" of the wrist.

Anybody who has ever played catch with a "lid" Frisbee knows it takes "under snap" or "under roll" of the wrist to make the disc fly straight. This is accomplished by starting with keeping the thumb of your throwing hand parallel to the ground.

Next, roll your wrist throughout the arm swing and release, finishing with your thumb pointing directly at the ground. This creates lots of hyzer and snap which allows these vintage class discs to turn and fly straight with maximum torque. Try this technique with a very understable golf disc, such as a used Stingray. This throw is great for fairways with a late turn.

For a moderately stable golf disc, such as a Roc, your thumb should remain about parallel to the ground throughout rotation and release while you turn your forearm slightly toward the sky in your follow-through. This will cause you to release with a slight hyzer angle, and follow-through is the key to keeping the disc flat through its flight. You may need to practice this technique repeatedly until it feels natural.

Finally, with the most overstable disc flight patterns, such as those produced with a Viper or Whippet, the disc must be released with anhyzer. Try to follow through on the same angle as the disc while rolling your wrist over to expose your forearm to the sky. Creating angle plus torque holds the disc's flight longer. You will have more penetration and glide, which helps the disc gain distance with an "S"-turn and not lose distance with a hard fall to the left (for right handers).

On this type of throw, you need to rotate and transfer your body weight forward, instead of down. If 12 o'clock represents the basket, most right-handed throwers start their run-up with the toes and front of the body facing 10 or 11 o'clock. They turn away and reach back to about 7 or 8 o'clock in coiling their body for the explosion.

Ideally, your weight should rotate on your front foot or plant foot, carrying your body rotation so your trailing leg ends up closest to the target. The front of your body and toes should now be facing 2 or 3 o'clock. I also believe this technique will be less strenuous to the back muscles and spine.
 
I don't know where he got them, but that is a ton of info.


I knew Foghorn would have this stuff down. lol
 
Well then this leads me to another question: what kind of shot would you get if you took an overstable disc, put a hyzer angle on it, but threw it like you would an anhyzer?
 
Well then this leads me to another question: what kind of shot would you get if you took an overstable disc, put a hyzer angle on it, but threw it like you would an anhyzer?

I say boy, that's how most noobs end up with massive oat and turn over the most overstable discs. Basically you are telling the disc to start out hyzer and finish anny.
 
Well then this leads me to another question: what kind of shot would you get if you took an overstable disc, put a hyzer angle on it, but threw it like you would an anhyzer?
Like sidewinder22 said, depending on the speed, nose angle, disc and how much OAT you put on it, you'd get a shot that got to flat or turned over for a bit and then faded hard. Chances are you won't find that to be a horribly useful shot. You'd probably end up either choosing a less overstable disc (probably a new version of your control driver) thrown with less OAT or your overstable disc thrown with an anhyzer but no OAT. Both of those would be easier to control and easier on your body.
 

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