Disc Golf in a Dress - PDGA Rule Change

[Loomis]

There was no antagonizing on my part. Read the thread.

 

[Streets]

As I read this thread I am not amazed at the inability for the sport to move forward. This is the greatest example of misdirection from a central point as there ever was. What started as a discussion about the formation of a new rule has turned into three or four different perceptions of the issue. Some seem to think it's about an attack on the rule. Some think it's an attack on the clothing itself. Some think it's about demeaning others. And others are just mindless Ad Hominem freaks who panic when things get beyond their comfort zone. There has been plenty of commentary and the issue was resolved to satisfy the temperamental crowd. Now it's in feckless. This article will be published with the quotes provided here and by others who seem to have a different view of how this issue was handled.

Cheers to you.

Why so serious? Isn't this an example of moving the sport forward in the form of updating women's accepted sports fashion into the 21st century? What's your issue here? Is it that the rule was changed? Were you bit by a tennis dress when you were a child? Why am I talking in questions? I'm Ron Burgundy?

 

[bobmcnelly]

Maybe some people just want to rack up more posts and they found the thread to do so.

 

[holly7845]

We are getting published? Oh boy! Get ready boys! It appears there was a hidden agenda.

 

[Menacewarf]

There was no antagonizing on my part. Read the thread.

Read it. Your still about the only one with a bone to pick, picking nits and feeling proud about it. 90% + of other posts are summed up by , " ok...common sense...cool."

 

[SSquirrel]

I expected a kilt thread.

It was what I planned to ask heh. I don't see anything in the rules preventing it tho. I wear my Utilikilt almost every time I go play

 

[Aim For The Chains]

Why were my pictures deleted? sometimes this place baffles me.. they were more on topic than half these stupid back and forth rants.

oh yeah who cares about REAL info though.

 

[Kodachrome]

The original rule was penned during a different time and fashion has grown up a lot since then. A la the required collared shirt has since morphed to include a dry fit.

Of course, how far do we want this to go? I'm not saying that this particular dress code was valid, but how far do we want to push the dress code before it fails to meet the purpose for which it was intended? Why did we have a dress code in the first place?

In regards to this rule; what was gained by changing it? Was there not suitable attire available for women prior to the change? Does this help or hinder the visibility of the sport as it moves forward?

your phrasing of certain questions is loaded. you may have been trying to sound impartial, but it did not come across that way.


how far do we want this to go? well, it hasn't gone far in the first place. we want everyone to appear professional while retaining a modicum of style and comfort that will be inviting to all. we need young blood in here too, and fashion *is* more marketable. in my opinion, golf is doing it right. clothing has gotten more stylish, personalities are coming out more as people express themselves through their clothing. it's fun, it's professional, it's great. people still look like athletes, like something a person would actually WANT to be. honestly there is nothing wrong with looking in the mirror and going "damn, i look good" before heading out for a round, for both males and females. athletes ARE in the public eye and they DO have sex appeal. that's sport. sport was to display people at the peak of athleticism performing extraordinary feats. it's always been there and it always will be.

are we pushing the dress code? i don't think so. in my opinion, that question makes no sense. obviously as far as sensibility will permit. so your next question is "well, how do you judge something like that?" . if you don't trust the PDGA, take it up with them. people haven't terribly flouted the rules yet that i know of, so i would suggest not worrying about it yet.

i think we have a dress code as a standard to ensure we present our sport to others in a favorable manner while allowing us comfort and ease of mobility. a dress code is a compromise that you agree to by being a member of the PDGA and participating in their events. you agree to represent. you are therefore culpable if you do not. if you don't want to, then don't play there. it does say on the rules page it is enforced at major events, but is discretionary at lower levels. you might have some problems there, but so far nobody has shown up in a banana hammock that i know of.

what was gained by changing it? more options for attire for people who play the sport at a high level. maybe more clothing lines. more comfort, i would assume. a more modern and feminine appearance, in line with many female athletes competing at high levels right now in the LPGA and tennis. gender identity. just as the males in the PGA typically look sharp and marketable, so do the women in their own way. i would hope the tennis skirt would have a bottom underneath it, of course, like skorts or something. i don't know how those things work, so i'll stay out of it.

there was suitable attire beforehand, and i'm sure you know it. this is another loaded question because of how it was phrased. is a tennis skirt not also suitable attire? should we not strive to define all things that are suitable and allow our athletes to wear them as an expression of themselves in a way that is both comfortable and, in terms of athleticism, efficacious? i think we should. that is why exceptions have already been made to "update" the look and deem other things acceptable. we had to start somewhere. this is progress. we will hit a point where further modifications are nit-picking and heading down the slope. i don't think we are there yet because this is a completely new article of clothing.

i feel it helps the visibility of the sport because we are keeping up with trends and providing more clothing options.

so there you go. the thing is, nobody likes it when someone comes in and starts asking loaded questions when we feel there is nothing wrong - no, in fact, we feel like something was corrected. like i said before, socrates is a great read. sometimes people don't want to think about why something is good, though. we just feel that it is. if you *really* wanted to know all those things, well i'm sorry everyone jumped you.

i don't think you did. i think you just wanted to start a dialogue that nobody else wanted to participate in.

 

[Kodachrome]

double post?

when a dress code becomes subject to the whims of style and does not also have a practical purpose for the sport in mind, that is a problem. i don't think we are there yet. like i said, it is a compromise we have agreed to. and so we should work out the terms of said compromise to everyone's mutual benefit.

 

[Kodachrome]

triple post. wtf.

 

[jeverett]

As I read this thread I am not amazed at the inability for the sport to move forward. This is the greatest example of misdirection from a central point as there ever was. What started as a discussion about the formation of a new rule has turned into three or four different perceptions of the issue. Some seem to think it's about an attack on the rule. Some think it's an attack on the clothing itself. Some think it's about demeaning others. And others are just mindless Ad Hominem freaks who panic when things get beyond their comfort zone. There has been plenty of commentary and the issue was resolved to satisfy the temperamental crowd. Now it's in feckless. This article will be published with the quotes provided here and by others who seem to have a different view of how this issue was handled.

Cheers to you.

Loomis, as you are hopefully aware, appropriate journalistic conduct involves acquiring the permission of the interviewee's *before* publication. I didn't see you ask anyone in this thread for their permission to quote them. Posting here on DGCR gives Timg rights to the material here, not you.

 

[steinkecm]

The rule needed to be changed because it's 2013. If we're going to complain about people "pushing the dress code," how about Nikko or what's his face in the Alabama Jersey and fedora?

The PDGA didn't think anyone was going to crap themselves over allowing a tennis dress, so they didn't ask everyone.

And to all of those who would even think this was about making the sport "sexier," shame on you. It's a wonder why we have so few women who want to play.

 

[JTacoma03]

I don't disagree with you but who are you going to watch play? Holly or Me? Sure you will watch Holly but will you watch her play? Also how many current DG girls will rock a 1 piece tennis skirt? 1 and thats holly.

So people watch you because of the numbers you post, and Holly is actively (and positively, I might add) shaping our professional attire image...

So if I put 2 and 2 together...McBeast should wear a Tennis Dress to Memorial?

I'm just trying to think big here man. They say no press is bad press right?

 

[JTacoma03]

So then by changing this dress code we have sexualized the sport to attract viewers. That's a healthy approach

I have yet to either oppose the rule change or suggest it was sexual. Both of these notions are incorrect.

I asked why was this change necessary?

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt for this singular post.

You're a very lucky guy, to be from Finland, where the sport has garnered much more respect and a higher status than here in the US. Jussi and Discmania have made sure of it (yes I'm giving major props to someone I work for, deal with it :thmbup.

Unfortunately for us here, it means effectively that we're correcting bad habits, rather than learning good ones from scratch. Disc Golf has a very unprofessional reputation, so in effect while we're in this period of heavy growth for the sport (12% per year over the last decade I believe was the statistic I read) we are in essence defining what is professional. 10 years ago, not enough people cared enough to address these concerns, but as we reach new milestones of membership and a lifestyle/culture is forming around the sport it absolutely is necessary to address these changes...as years down the road the foundation of the image we create for ourselves now could make or break us when bigger dollars start coming in.

I'm not implying that this is necessarily the immediate reason behind the PDGA's ruling. I repeat, I'm suggesting NO ulterior motives, but you asked why addressing change is necessary. The sad fact is most of the time the PDGA doesn't do enough, the fact that they were proactive with what Holly brought to the table and addressed it before the start of the next season is progress.

Now I'll ask you a question. Do you really believe the slippery slope fallacy, or are you eloquently trolling this thread?

 

[Cgkdisc]

The timeline for the tennis dress approval went something like this. I saw a post on Facebook about Holly getting warned at KCWO held June 14-16 for wearing a tennis dress. I sent an email Monday, June 17 to my fellow Competition Committee members that this happened. I pointed out that she was clearly wearing a tennis dress in photos at the Hall of Fame Classic in May at the IDGC and yet none of the many PDGA officials and marshals warned her on this dress code violation.

Discussion went back and forth among the Committee members which includes Suzette (Discette) as our one female member. The Committee had been asked to take a look at revising the Dress Code before Holly's incident so this just fueled the discussions. The results from this round of discussions was to contact the Womens Committee and the discgolf4women Facebook page for feedback which Suzette handled. Also, Holly was asked to put together a proposal to revise the dress code to include tennis dresses and any other changes she felt should be considered. The idea to ask Holly and me to produce a video modeling both acceptable and unacceptable clothing for males and females was discussed but tabled.

Holly eventually presented her written proposal to the PDGA this Fall. The general dress code discussions were slowly progressing. But the Competition Committee wanted to at least address her proposal and make a decision before the start of the 2014 tour year. The existing Dress Code had an exception to allow sleeveless polos with collars for women which typically only they wear. Tennis dresses seem to fall in this same category of athletic outfits (acceptable in related sports) that typically only women wear. So that's the primary justification for this next step to include tennis dresses in the evolving dress code. Note that the current dress code does not prevent men from wearing skirts including kilts as long as they wear an appropriate shirt with it.

 

[SSquirrel]

Note that the current dress code does not prevent men from wearing skirts including kilts as long as they wear an appropriate shirt with it.

Not that I'm ever going to be on the tour, but that's pretty cool. Excellent informative post in general Cgk.

 

[onemilemore]

Loomis, as you are hopefully aware, appropriate journalistic conduct involves acquiring the permission of the interviewee's *before* publication. I didn't see you ask anyone in this thread for their permission to quote them. Posting here on DGCR gives Timg rights to the material here, not you.

I'm not sure about this. It's a public forum where participation makes it on the record, no? If all quotes need to be cleared, then why do news articles constantly use people's Tweets as source material?

 

[threevok]

Someone felt self confident in their body image because Holly can pull these dresses off very well and that other person couldn't. They were jealous of Holly's look and fame, found a loophole in the system and exploited it. Tennis dresses are very professional for the game and this rule is a needed addition IMO

I pull off dresses very well too, but I would not do so during a sanctioned event.

 

[Turbo88]

My problem with the rule change is that it is too specific. I am a woman who has no desire to play in a tennis dress. However, I would like to be able to play in a sleeveless shirt without a collar. I don't see how an athletic top with straps wider than 1 inch is any less appropriate than a dress with 1 inch straps.

example:

 

[Kodachrome]

I'm not sure about this. It's a public forum where participation makes it on the record, no? If all quotes need to be cleared, then why do news articles constantly use people's Tweets as source material?

Regardless, it shows his quality as a writer. Trolling a forum with loaded questions and then citing the responses in an article. Solid work, bro.