Disc Golf Pro Tour

[SeveN]

What courses in the Vancouver area could host a prestigious event? A cursory glance shows that some of the higher rated courses are out on Vancouver Island. I have visited Nanaimo and Victoria before and would be glad to go either location to watch some disc golf next summer.

Sorry if I'm derailing anything. Just wanted to answer this question.

In the past year we've had some great tournaments pressing for better courses. We successfully held the Canadian Nationals, where [the pros] played Garibaldi Springs (golf course turned disc golf course, awesome to play on), Grouse mountain (they added an 18 hole course up there...definitely worth the trip), and Queen Elizabeth park (they had to get a permit to expand the course temporarily for the tournament. We only played like 3 holes on the actual disc golf portion). The Ams switched in Passive park in Langley for Garibaldi. I'd say Langley is one of the best courses in the Vancouver area outside of the golf courses. They've recently got new baskets and the course is challenging and fun.

But I honestly don't know what courses they will pick. But I do know the team that will likely take on this endeavor. And I trust that they will step up big time for the team disc golf championships

 

[Horsman]

Why though? The website? That's it? It took almost three years for Vibram to update their actual site as well. Yes, in this day and age of the internet its a shame that its not better but it CAN get better.

Dodge has had this idea for a long time coming. With Steve and Nate teaming up we can only dream what can happen in the DGPT. I know people hated on the Ledgestone but it was a great tournament that felt like a true major.

My opinion. A lot of the verbage on the website seems to be written sloppily and to me just doesn't feel professional.

 

[Pbmercil]

Seems like a pretty obvious slam dunk to me. Most of these events were perspective NT's that did not get selected for this year. All of these events have proven that they can put on an NT caliber tourney. Instead of just running an A Teir and hoping to get a decent turnout they came together and made their own series. I think that's an easy win for everyone involved.

The previously posted combined schedule is really impressive. If your a touring player you'd have to be really stoked about all the available options for next year. If your a fan of disc golf at its highest level this is pretty cool

 

[DanJon]

The Pro Tour seems better for your average pro who doesn't have a sponsor paying for overseas travel (or just paying out of pocket).

I understand the Nordic countries have an expanding market, but most people can't afford to spend thousands of dollars up front on travel costs. Especially when there are big gaps in between events on the World Tour.

The routing for the Pro Tour makes a lot more sense and I like the partnership with Smash Boxx for Live Coverage.

Jussi seems to want to make a sexy sleek package for big money outside sponsors/support. Selling disc golf as the hot new sport with top athletes

While Mr. Dodge appears to want a more grassroots supported model with a focus on the experience as a whole. Selling the fun aspect. If that's true, it has a better appeal to me and seems more sustainable.

 

[onemilemore]

The Pro Tour seems better for your average pro who doesn't have a sponsor paying for overseas travel (or just paying out of pocket).

I understand the Nordic countries have an expanding market, but most people can't afford to spend thousands of dollars up front on travel costs. Especially when there are big gaps in between events on the World Tour.

The routing for the Pro Tour makes a lot more sense and I like the partnership with Smash Boxx for Live Coverage.

Jussi seems to want to make a sexy sleek package for big money outside sponsors/support. Selling disc golf as the hot new sport with top athletes

While Mr. Dodge appears to want a more grassroots supported model with a focus on the experience as a whole. Selling the fun aspect. If that's true, it has a better appeal to me and seems more sustainable.

And I think it will be interesting to see which model appeals more to those outside disc golf. I am sure there will be plenty of disc golfers who choose a favorite approach, so that will kind of be a wash. The big impact will be who can attract the outside viewership.

Either way, I think both models can be successful in their own right. It just depends on what you view as success and what your vision is for disc golf's growth. If you wanted it on ESPN yesterday you might see the World Tour model as the favorite. If you're good with the slow growth, but would like to see it built up and appeal to a wider base, then you might like the Pro Tour. It's going to be fun to watch, and I don't think you have to prefer one over the other to want them both to be successful. All of these things are steps in the right direction.

 

[liquidarity]

Sorry if I'm derailing anything. Just wanted to answer this question.

In the past year we've had some great tournaments pressing for better courses. We successfully held the Canadian Nationals, where [the pros] played Garibaldi Springs (golf course turned disc golf course, awesome to play on), Grouse mountain (they added an 18 hole course up there...definitely worth the trip), and Queen Elizabeth park (they had to get a permit to expand the course temporarily for the tournament. We only played like 3 holes on the actual disc golf portion). The Ams switched in Passive park in Langley for Garibaldi. I'd say Langley is one of the best courses in the Vancouver area outside of the golf courses. They've recently got new baskets and the course is challenging and fun.

But I honestly don't know what courses they will pick. But I do know the team that will likely take on this endeavor. And I trust that they will step up big time for the team disc golf championships

That sounds pretty cool. Does Langley get much snow? I would like to try and play a round there sometime this Fall but my next two weekends are already booked.

 

[SeveN]

That sounds pretty cool. Does Langley get much snow? I would like to try and play a round there sometime this Fall but my next two weekends are already booked.

Grouse would get snow first, and I'm predicting we won't see it till late December (if we get any this year...)

Langley should be fairly snow-free, with the exception of perhaps a few days near the end of the year or beginning 2016. Then, only during a freak snowstorm in February.

 

[DiscFifty]

"With three Disc Golf tours, I fear any success without MAJOR collaboration - which the PDGA NT has no interest in. This will be further challenged by the fact that two new tours trying to gain traction in 2016."

Prediction: If these tours prove themselves (big profits) I predict the PDGA will (eventually) step up and create the "official" PDGA DGT. And the other tours will slowly die out due to no support from the PDGA.

 

[JC17393]

"With three Disc Golf tours, I fear any success without MAJOR collaboration - which the PDGA NT has no interest in. This will be further challenged by the fact that two new tours trying to gain traction in 2016."

Prediction: If these tours prove themselves (big profits) I predict the PDGA will (eventually) step up and create the "official" PDGA DGT. And the other tours will slowly die out due to no support from the PDGA.

OR, since all these events are already PDGA events, the PDGA can simply absorb them into an expanded NT schedule without actually hurting either "tour" in any way, shape, or form.

 

[DiscFifty]

OR, since all these events are already PDGA events, the PDGA can simply absorb them into an expanded NT schedule without actually hurting either "tour" in any way, shape, or form.

Like others have said, there's only one NBA, NFL, etc, etc, once the market is ready there will be only 1 tour...the PDGA Tour. These other tours will either prove or disprove if the market is ready.

 

[onemilemore]

Like others have said, there's only one NBA, NFL, etc, etc, once the market is ready there will be only 1 tour...the PDGA Tour. These other tours will either prove or disprove if the market is ready.

If these tours prove successful financially, who's to say they'll sell to the PDGA just for the sake of having the PDGA Tour? And, would the PDGA even have enough money for that kind of takeover?

 

[JC17393]

If these tours prove successful financially, who's to say they'll sell to the PDGA just for the sake of having the PDGA Tour? And, would the PDGA even have enough money for that kind of takeover?

But these tours aren't separate from the PDGA in the first place. What the DGWT and DGPT are, on a much grander scale, is not unlike any number of state and regional series that exist and have existed for a long time already. It's a group of PDGA sanctioned events linked together by a common goal or organizing body.

If they're successful, there's no "selling" to or "taking over" by the PDGA necessary. The PDGA can add them to the NT or they can continue to be the same Majors and A-tiers they'll be in 2016, but they're still going to be part of the PDGA. They aren't competing against the PDGA or seeking to replace it. Essentially, each tour is taking a different tack in augmenting the existing PDGA tournament structure.

There's no reason to root against any of them and every reason to root for all of them to have success.

 

[onemilemore]

But these tours aren't separate from the PDGA in the first place. What the DGWT and DGPT are, on a much grander scale, is not unlike any number of state and regional series that exist and have existed for a long time already. It's a group of PDGA sanctioned events linked together by a common goal or organizing body.

If they're successful, there's no "selling" to or "taking over" by the PDGA necessary. The PDGA can add them to the NT or they can continue to be the same Majors and A-tiers they'll be in 2016, but they're still going to be part of the PDGA. They aren't competing against the PDGA or seeking to replace it. Essentially, each tour is taking a different tack in augmenting the existing PDGA tournament structure.

There's no reason to root against any of them and every reason to root for all of them to have success.

I agree with that. I was just speaking to the prior commenter's larger point that the PDGA would take these tours over if they became successful. I think, if the PDGA would want there to be a PDGA Tour ONLY, then there would have to be some kind of buyout if these tours succeed.

It's all really cart before the horse, though. Like you said, these tours exist within the PDGA structure at this point, and that is an essential component of them catching on.

 

[DGPT]

This all seems a bit rushed to me. To me it feels like Steve just threw a lot of this info together before it was ready to be announced just so that the World Tour would not gain as much traction as he thinks it will. The website is really poorly done in my eyes and has some good info on it but there isn't a lot that is clear.

Thank you for taking the time to read through the site. Give me specifics and I will be happy to review them on the site. But let me assure you, this idea and site are not rushed. There is much significant planning behind the tip of the iceberg being shown and discussed, much like with the DGWT. What specific info would you like to see on the website? If it is there already, I will work to make it easier to find. If it is not and should be, I will add it. Again, thanks for caring enough to read the site and discuss it.

1. There's a reason that there aren't multiple tours/leagues for bigger sports. Only one NBA, NFL, NHL, MLB. Yes, before you say it, there are European leagues and some in Asia, but they hold about 1% market share...

2. With three Disc Golf tours, I fear any success without MAJOR collaboration - which the PDGA NT has no interest in. This will be further challenged by the fact that two new tours trying to gain traction in 2016. I don't see conflicting dates, but again, no collaboration.

3. All in all, I think announcing TWO new tours in 2016 that are shunning/shunned by the PDGA is a huge mistake and counter-productive.

1. The Pro Tour proposes to become the premier North American disc golf tour. The World Tour, I believe, is focusing on Europe (and probably Australia and Japan in 2017 and beyond) with relatively small presence in the USA. It is easy to see successful paths for both tours. Jussi and I have talked many times and agree that coordinating both tours, and the PDGA events, is critical to all of our success.
2. I am going to have to disagree here. The fact that there is only one date conflict among three significant tours and the PDGA Majors demonstrates that collaboration and working together are already happening.
3. You are absolutely correct. Shunning the PDGA, the governing body of our sport, would be a huge mistake and counter-productive. Therefore, we are in no way shunning the PDGA. All of our events are PDGA Sanctioned and we will be working closely with the PDGA to make the events, and PDGA involvement with them, huge. These discussions have begun and will continue. Our oars are rowing in the same direction.

Honestly, other than these new "tours" linking together a few events, I don't see a whole lot different from past years. ... In a way, these new tours aren't all that different from the various state and regional series that go on every year, just on a larger scale.

We are incorporating a Tour Championship (with significant payout), adding Live Coverage that you can count on being there at every event, continuing the evolution of disc golf statistics, bringing a disc golf festival to attract families and folks that would not normally go to watch if there was just a great tournament, and throwing significant marketing dollars at the whole thing.

In 2016, the Pro Tour is absolutely quite regional in the Northeast and North central. After we have worked out the kinks, created a viable, sustainable product, and proven our abilities to conduct quality events, the plan is to expand to the entirety of North America in 2017.

Seems like a pretty obvious slam dunk to me. Most of these events were perspective NT's that did not get selected for this year. All of these events have proven that they can put on an NT caliber tourney. Instead of just running an A Teir and hoping to get a decent turnout they came together and made their own series. I think that's an easy win for everyone involved.

The previously posted combined schedule is really impressive. If you're a touring player you'd have to be really stoked about all the available options for next year. If you're a fan of disc golf at its highest level this is pretty cool

Agreed.

The big impact will be who can attract the outside viewership.
Either way, I think both models can be successful in their own right.

Agreed.

When your audience can tell you are having fun... They will want in on the fun...

Doesnt matter [what] you apply it to. Peeps like a good time.

Disco.

There's no reason to root against any of them and every reason to root for all of them to have success.

This.

OR, since all these events are already PDGA events, the PDGA can simply absorb them into an expanded NT schedule without actually hurting either "tour" in any way, shape, or form.

I do not actually see this happening without significant changes in the PDGA. I do not propose to build something, demonstrate that it can work, and then simply have the PDGA "absorb" it into an expanded NT. While I will make sure to continue to work with the PDGA and 100% plan on PDGA sanctioning all of our events now and in the future, I do not foresee a situation where we cede control of the DGPT to the PDGA NT.


Thanks for all of your comments, keep 'em coming. If you feel we missed one, please repeat it and we will loop back around and answer it in our next post.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

wow. pretty legit. Loo forward to next year'

*^#@^&%@^&%@! winter.

at least DGPT hasn't taken the spin route and just dip out on the backside. Well done' and welcome!

 

[DanJon]

Great to hear.

Can't wait to see what's in store.

I think that the Smugglers Notch tournament is part of a bigger Fall Festival correct?

Have you given thought to live music and possibly teaming up with local breweries and food vendors for this?

I worked in Events Management for years and one of my current clients is a regional Events Organization, I could see incorporating those elements successfully.

 

[JC17393]

I do not actually see this happening without significant changes in the PDGA. I do not propose to build something, demonstrate that it can work, and then simply have the PDGA "absorb" it into an expanded NT. While I will make sure to continue to work with the PDGA and 100% plan on PDGA sanctioning all of our events now and in the future, I do not foresee a situation where we cede control of the DGPT to the PDGA NT.

I guess I wasn't being clear. I was not saying that the PDGA would take over when I said "absorb". I mean, they could incorporate the events of the tour into the NT while still allowing them to operate as they were.

To draw a comparison to the PGA tour...the DGPT and DGWT could operate along the lines of the WGC. WGC is its own group of events but are all considered PGA Tour events on an equal standing with the rest (actually, they're each worth a bit more in the FedEx Cup series).

I mean, as it is, the first of the DGPT events is already an NT event and the culminating event of the DGWT is a PDGA major. I can see those numbers increasing without either tour suffering or losing control of itself as a result.

 

[alfonseski]

Great to hear.

Can't wait to see what's in store.

I think that the Smugglers Notch tournament is part of a bigger Fall Festival correct?

Have you given thought to live music and possibly teaming up with local breweries and food vendors for this?

I worked in Events Management for years and one of my current clients is a regional Events Organization, I could see incorporating those elements successfully.

This is exactly what the GMC was this past year, 3 days of disc golf, craft beer, food, and music. I imagine next year with the tourney being even more high profile they will just turn it up another notch. What made it even more amazing is the Smugglers Notch village ties it all together. Everyone is in one place for it all to enjoy and the community feel is amazing. Plus water slides....

 

[Understable]

1. The Pro Tour proposes to become the premier North American disc golf tour. The World Tour, I believe, is focusing on Europe (and probably Australia and Japan in 2017 and beyond) with relatively small presence in the USA. It is easy to see successful paths for both tours. Jussi and I have talked many times and agree that coordinating both tours, and the PDGA events, is critical to all of our success.

When you intentionally ignore women, you will NOT be the premier NA tour. Suck it up and be an inclusive tour. You group are showing little strong leadership right now.

 

[bhadella]

When you intentionally ignore women, you will NOT be the premier NA tour. Suck it up and be an inclusive tour. You group are showing little strong leadership right now.

The DGPT (the North American tour) does include a women's field so it is being inclusive. The WDGT (the World tour) does not include a women's field.