Disc Golf World Tour

[onemilemore]

It's not that they can't be trusted, just seems a bit much to have players record the data so the DGWT can produce some stats. Then again, buy the ticket, take the ride - Jussi's vision. Agree or disagree, he's got a vision.

This was my sentiment as well. No trust issues at all, I just think it's a bad idea to add something else to these players' plate when - if you truly want a top-notch product for the masses - they should simply be focused on the next shot.

 

[smyith]

Green hits I believe were also included at USDGC. Still don't think it's a great idea to leave that to players (or, more likely, their caddies). If this is a big tour, have some people in official capacities doing it.

Seems to me it would truly be professional to have an official with each card. Keep track of stats and clear up rules/rulings quickly to keep pace up.

 

[rhatton1]

They managed at the Croydon British Open a couple of years ago to have a non playing scorer/spotter with every group, every round.

You'd hope if a B tier event could manage that on no budget and just the offer of free entry into the next home tour event, then a "World Tour" could find a similar/better solution.

Asking players to record anything more than their score at the end of a hole is clunky in the extreme.

http://www.croydondiscgolf.com/news/21-cdgc-story-of-the-2014-british-open

 

[Steve West]

I would think all these players could sit down later in the evening and recreate every throw from memory. Maybe they will fill in the stats then, not on the course.

In a just world, they would be compensated for their time, not penalized for non-compliance.

 

[Cgkdisc]

I think the case can be made that helping to produce their personal stats is in their best financial interest in the long run both for personal knowledge and for their developing fan base. They will be doing very little relative to the work being done by promoters to produce and maintain the stats let alone run the event, provide added cash and generate media interest.

 

[Jenga54]

I personally wouldn't ask the players to record any stats beyond score for each hole. Even though it's simple enough to ask to make a mark for "green hit" or "# of putts" - that isn't what you ask the players to do, that's not their responsibility - it's the promoter's responsibility to provide the fans what they want, or what he/she promised.

 

[DiscJunkie]

Will their stats be like internet distance?

Official: "Wow, this Player recorded a 500ft drive on Hole 10! Wait, Hole 10 is only 325' long. Hmmm. How can that happen?"
Player: "Yeah, it was 500'. That hole must be labeled wrong."

 

[DiscLoser1]

I think the case can be made that helping to produce their personal stats is in their best financial interest in the long run both for personal knowledge and for their developing fan base. They will be doing very little relative to the work being done by promoters to produce and maintain the stats let alone run the event, provide added cash and generate media interest.

Good points, but I question the practical application of these stats for the players, other than bragging rights. Athletes don't need stats to adjust their games; consumers/fans might be interested.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Fan interest will eventually pay their bills if the tour works. You know you've hit mainstream when Vegas takes an interest in the sport. Stats drive that action.

 

[onemilemore]

Fan interest will eventually pay their bills if the tour works. You know you've hit mainstream when Vegas takes an interest in the sport. Stats drive that action.

But there aren't any other sports where the players are the statkeepers, either. Like the above poster said, get someone in an official capacity on each card. I'm sure they can train some volunteers in a timely fashion.

 

[BgWvDave]

It will obviously depend on the amount of "stats" they are looking to gather from the players. But when it comes to things like Putts, most top level players I know, know exactly what happen during a specific round.

Player A: How'd you play that round

Top Pro: Pretty well. Missed 2 putts, but made a 50 footer on hole Z so that made up for it

 

[Jenga54]

It will obviously depend on the amount of "stats" they are looking to gather from the players. But when it comes to things like Putts, most top level players I know, know exactly what happen during a specific round.

Player A: How'd you play that round

Top Pro: Pretty well. Missed 2 putts, but made a 50 footer on hole Z so that made up for it

Stuff like the Attached.
Good lookin stuff!

 

[BgWvDave]

exactly. Not sure if the Pro's would find statistics like this useful or not. But i'd be interested in seeing round and tournament statistics. The obvious things like Greens in regulation (even thought we don't really have a defined "green") fairways hit/missed, etc. But also things like average putt distance, Scrambling percentage.

I don't know if I agree that the players should be responsible for tacking all of this though.

 

[Jenga54]

(even thought we don't really have a defined "green"

...it's the 10M circle. then there's the stat around putts hit from inside and outside the green circle

 

[kerplunk]

Stuff like the Attached.
Good lookin stuff!

That is pretty darn cool. I am okay with asking players to keep their own stats, as long as there isn't a penalty for recording them incorrectly. Based on those head-to-heads it looks like only 3 stats would be necessary- green hit, ICP, OCP. The scorecard could be set up to have three small boxes inside the score box that the player could check for each of these stats, which would require minimal additional effort.

 

[JTacoma03]

X-tiers does not automatically mean no ratings. Case-by-case basis. I haven't heard why LaMirada is X-tier for example. St. Jude's was XA-tier last year and was rated.

I think St. Jude's was XA because of the number of holes (36). IIRC it has to be 54 holes minimum to be an A-tier?

From the DGWT Q&A on their website:

8) What rules are used in the Disc Golf World Tour events?

Even if not being a sanctioned PDGA event, the DGWT will abide by the PDGA official rules of disc golf. The PDGA Competition Manual for disc golf events will be in effect with some possible alterations. The rules of disc golf as defined by the PDGA will also be the rules governing play at DGWT events. The DGWT will also follow guidelines outlined in the competition manual, but reserves the right to modify those guidelines as necessary. Any exceptions or changes will be made known to the players, media, and spectators in advance of the event affected by any changes made.

Doesn't answer any questions, but feel free to speculate...

I can actually answer this (I helped proofread some of the website for grammar), I think it's more of a CYA move...essentially the "we reserve the right to refuse service..." signs that businesses post.

Consider this hypothetical: they're accepting applications now for 2017, and so they don't know where all events will be held yet. If a venue was 99% perfect for a DGWT event, but had 1 hole on the course that was just not safe, maybe adding something that's non-pdga compliant at their discretion is better than the alternative (finding another venue entirely).

 

[Cgkdisc]

I think St. Jude's was XA because of the number of holes (36). IIRC it has to be 54 holes minimum to be an A-tier?

Could be. Probably could have been a B-tier but maybe they felt XA still sounded better and players would have to be PDGA members. Plus it was a charity with fund raising expectations and potentially lower payout. Point being it was an X-tier which included ratings at least last year.

 

[rhatton1]

I love the idea of greater stats, from so many different points of view (especially Chuck/Steve as there could be some great info there for course design and standards etc. which haven't really been taken since you did it 10+ years ago? ) but asking players to record this themselves smacks of smalltime, small thinking - what was Jussi's term for that sort of thinking?

On an 18 hole course hosting a "World Tour" event it's not that hard to find 18 volunteers or even cheaply paid people to raise that standard, we're not talking 8 courses at Worlds here. No mainstream sport would expect their players to record extra stats (cue someone finding the exception to this rule) , even if that does have a direct financial benefit for the players themselves.

Build it as you mean to go on - if the tournament was being televised to 10 million across the world we wouldn't expect to see the players recording if they hit the green or not and telephoning those stats back hole by hole to the media office so they can update mid round (yes I know these stats will be for post production stuff not live streams but still, you get the point). We would want to see those players concentrating on the one thing we had turned the television on to watch - playing the best they can. There is an easy way to do this that doesn't cost much/anything at our level. I love the idea, I hope the above discussed will not be the final execution of it.

Hell go bigger. One/two volunteers per hole. One GPS/laser finder measuring drive distance, one tracking fairways hit/greens in regulation and at the same point spotting. Come up with more stats to track, it's all interesting on many levels to many people.

Just don't put it on the players heads.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

Sounds like typical Jussism of disc golfers.

Do more and ill get the benefits!

 

[Flick Maniac]

Dammit. I saw somewhere a photo of the La Mirada event score card and it had rows for Score, Inside the circle putts, Outside the circle putts and Penalties. (AFAIK) I was trying to find the photo but could not. But trust me, it was there I guess thats one source for the Metrix.