I ve been wondering what was up with them as well. I wonder if they got to comfortable being number 2 and all of sudden, even if numbers don't say it yet they are more like 3-5 in ppls eyes. Other than Doss no top touring pro to speak of and in 3 years dynamic, prodigy, and latitude have a more complete disc line up. I would like them to step their game up.
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Discraft needs to step their game back up'
- Thread starter Aim For The Chains
- Start date
They sell a lot of Ultrastars for Ultimate. Is it possible Jim is so busy with that side of the biz that he doesn't make time or value the disc golf side as much? I dunno.
This could be true, I heard rumors long ago they make more money in Ultimate then Disc Golf and the Buzz sells so well they still make a killing in profits on the disc golf side.
The Birdie Beast
Birdie Member
- Joined
- Apr 12, 2014
- Messages
- 253
Ultimate is hauling in more money for discraft right now, so that is what they are focusing on.
I'd say MJ is a top level touring pro. But Discraft certainly isn't being as aggressive (or maybe is just less successful?) at signing the young big arms. But their quality is well established, and I throw at least 80% Discraft. Plus, yes I love the UltraStar.
Halcón
Free At Last
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2012
- Messages
- 12,038
I've been looking at Discgolfcenter's top seller list, multiple times a week, for over 4 years now. I can't remember ever seeing the Buzzz outside of the top 10, and it's almost always in the top 5.
Now it's not even on the list at all!
I'm not sure if that means anything...or nothing. But it's curious.
Now it's not even on the list at all!
I'm not sure if that means anything...or nothing. But it's curious.
- Joined
- Feb 2, 2014
- Messages
- 8,168
I think a lot of people view the Truth as a better Buzzz, that disc probably hurts them some. Recent Truth runs have been a little squirrley from what ive heard but that could be the dent there.
I had never thrown much Discraft but my wife for me one of the premium X out boxes for Christmas. I really liked the Force, Nuke, Focus and Wildcat(that one surprised me). Hawk was pretty decent too like a Shark without that weird bevel.
Didn't care for the Magnet at all and don't see how anyone can grip it. Though I liked the Comet and get why people like it, I could never bag one. It's feels massive to me and the wing feels like a Roc right after Thanksgiving dinner. Maybe I need longer fingers...
They just need to update their aesthetic, I think the look of many of their discs holds them back.
Some of the names too. A newb has no idea that a flick is a FH, if the Flick were called something cool it would sell amazing.
Also missed out on a big marketing op on the Force with Star Wars relaunching.
They should have done some spacey things that wouldn't be copyright infringement.
I had never thrown much Discraft but my wife for me one of the premium X out boxes for Christmas. I really liked the Force, Nuke, Focus and Wildcat(that one surprised me). Hawk was pretty decent too like a Shark without that weird bevel.
Didn't care for the Magnet at all and don't see how anyone can grip it. Though I liked the Comet and get why people like it, I could never bag one. It's feels massive to me and the wing feels like a Roc right after Thanksgiving dinner. Maybe I need longer fingers...
They just need to update their aesthetic, I think the look of many of their discs holds them back.
Some of the names too. A newb has no idea that a flick is a FH, if the Flick were called something cool it would sell amazing.
Also missed out on a big marketing op on the Force with Star Wars relaunching.
They should have done some spacey things that wouldn't be copyright infringement.
This isn't really a "right now" situation. Ultimate has always made them more money.
Back in the 90's when I was retailing discs I thought Innova was a disc golf company run by disc golfers. Sure, they came from the same Frisbee scene as everybody else at that time so they would jam and play Guts and such, but Dave D and Tim seemed like guys where if you said "we have two hours and a couple Frisbees, what do you want to do?" they were going to frolf. The focus there was squarely on disc golf.
Discraft was a Frisbee company that made golf discs. The focus there was Ultimate and Freestyle. Disc golf was part of the Frisbee scene and they made golf discs, but if you asked Jim Kenner what to do with to hours and a couple Frisbees you were going to be jamming at the beach or playing Ultimate. Their focus was never on disc golf.
We don't get that, becasue we are disc golfers and the idea that we are a secondary product to a company that's only product is discs is kinda weird. It's the truth, though. Always has been.
Makes sense thanks for the insight ... but what happens when there is a gyro ultimate disc?! Innova also has been doing a lot to gain ground in that area. You would think they would want to keep all avenues open and well kept.
Innova also has been doing a lot to gain ground in that area. You would think they would want to keep all avenues open and well kept.
Hard to know. We end up not knowing a lot about these places, especially Discraft. They were a lot harder to get to know than Innova and Lightning. Discraft was all business, no chit-chat.
The other end of the spectrum was DGA. If I called Ed Headrick for business, I needed to set an extra hour aside so he could chat my ear off. He was a really brilliant guy; it was fun to talk to him even as my boss was glaring at me and looking at her watch.
DGA, Millennium and Gateway all suffered in different ways from the fact that the people behind each of those companies really didn't want to sell discs. They wanted to build courses. The sport is small and opportunities to build courses few and not very lucrative, so they sold discs as a way to diversify and bring in income. They would do things so far as disc went that made you scratch your head and wonder what they were doing, but I think it basically came down to golf discs just not being the focus of the company. The companies were too small to really overcome the fact that the main guy in the company didn't really have his eye on the ball so far as golf discs went. All three could be much larger players in disc golf than they are today if the focus had been different IMO. You probably can say the same for Discraft.
In the end, the companies are pretty much the vision of one guy. If that one guy is happy with how things are, that's what we get. At the end of the day, if Jim Kenner looks back and is satisfied with what he created at Discraft it is what it is.
The other end of the spectrum was DGA. If I called Ed Headrick for business, I needed to set an extra hour aside so he could chat my ear off. He was a really brilliant guy; it was fun to talk to him even as my boss was glaring at me and looking at her watch.
DGA, Millennium and Gateway all suffered in different ways from the fact that the people behind each of those companies really didn't want to sell discs. They wanted to build courses. The sport is small and opportunities to build courses few and not very lucrative, so they sold discs as a way to diversify and bring in income. They would do things so far as disc went that made you scratch your head and wonder what they were doing, but I think it basically came down to golf discs just not being the focus of the company. The companies were too small to really overcome the fact that the main guy in the company didn't really have his eye on the ball so far as golf discs went. All three could be much larger players in disc golf than they are today if the focus had been different IMO. You probably can say the same for Discraft.
In the end, the companies are pretty much the vision of one guy. If that one guy is happy with how things are, that's what we get. At the end of the day, if Jim Kenner looks back and is satisfied with what he created at Discraft it is what it is.
If you're ever in MN.. Dinner on me'
I hear that. DC has nothing to prove.
I hear that. DC has nothing to prove.
SCBass
Newbie
A new player's persective
New to the forum, and in a way new to the sport (I played pretty heavily for about six months a couple years ago then left for college and kind of hung it up, but I'm getting back into it and enjoying it more than ever). Anyways, I throw mostly Discraft for the same reason many people seem to be bashing them, their selection is simple and they aren't coming out with a new disc every two weeks. I see why people who eat sleep and breathe disc golf love to try new discs and hunt down first runs on eBay but as a relatively new player I've always found their selection to be easy to understand. I do agree that their marketing and social media presence isn't on the level of a lot of these new companies and agree that in the new realm of media marketing they should probably step up their strategy and presence.
Again, I understand what people are saying, just wanted to throw in my $.02 from the perspective of a relatively new player who has always felt overwhelmed by the talk of 11x Rocs vs. a normal Roc and a Roc3 and KC Pros vs. the million other combinations of run and plastic that is talked about by Innova loyalists. I also think there's something to be said for the lack of new product development costs Discraft is incurring vs. these other companies who put out new products as often as possible as well as the lack of marketing dollars being spent by having a smaller pro staff (seemingly made mostly of players not receiving monetary compensation). Maybe their business model isn't what it should be but I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens in a relatively small (although hopefully expanding) market, although I do have to wonder how many more new companies (and new products) a market the size of Disc sales can support...
New to the forum, and in a way new to the sport (I played pretty heavily for about six months a couple years ago then left for college and kind of hung it up, but I'm getting back into it and enjoying it more than ever). Anyways, I throw mostly Discraft for the same reason many people seem to be bashing them, their selection is simple and they aren't coming out with a new disc every two weeks. I see why people who eat sleep and breathe disc golf love to try new discs and hunt down first runs on eBay but as a relatively new player I've always found their selection to be easy to understand. I do agree that their marketing and social media presence isn't on the level of a lot of these new companies and agree that in the new realm of media marketing they should probably step up their strategy and presence.
Again, I understand what people are saying, just wanted to throw in my $.02 from the perspective of a relatively new player who has always felt overwhelmed by the talk of 11x Rocs vs. a normal Roc and a Roc3 and KC Pros vs. the million other combinations of run and plastic that is talked about by Innova loyalists. I also think there's something to be said for the lack of new product development costs Discraft is incurring vs. these other companies who put out new products as often as possible as well as the lack of marketing dollars being spent by having a smaller pro staff (seemingly made mostly of players not receiving monetary compensation). Maybe their business model isn't what it should be but I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens in a relatively small (although hopefully expanding) market, although I do have to wonder how many more new companies (and new products) a market the size of Disc sales can support...
THUGNIFICENT763
Banned
The majority of my bag slots are filled by Discraft molds. Not having a world champ since McCabe back in 2009-10 or Doss back in 2010-11 has absolutely zero bearing on why this is the case. The quality of their discs is legendary, and they have a very rabid following of loyal throwers, myself being one of them haha.
I don't really know anything about Kenner, but the UltraStar was always leagues ahead of the other ultimate discs. I think he had a winning ticket and he took advantage of it for decades. Can't help but wonder, though, if Innova's Pulsar will change anything in the near future.
The pulsar is the official mold for MLU.
http://mlultimate.com/innova-signs-as-disc-partner/
Sounds like it was 2 year deal from 2013 ...
http://mlultimate.com/innova-signs-as-disc-partner/
Sounds like it was 2 year deal from 2013 ...
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tbird888
Salient Disc Test Team
Kenner's claim to fame in the Frisbee world is in the development of Freestyle with Ken Westerfield. He's a product of that old Frisbee counter culture from the 60's and 70's where disc golf is just part of an overall Frisbee thing. Compare that to somebody like Jussi Meresmaa at Discmania. He is a product of our modern disc golf culture and that company is all disc golf. I think that focus on disc golf that you get from Discmania doesn't happen at Discraft, probably becasue Kenner's vision is a more overall Frisbee thing than a "disc golf is going to take over the World" thing that a guy like Meresmaa has.
It certainly has more teams than MLU. So far as popularity I'd have no idea. You would have to heavily sedate me, duct tape me to the bleachers and place an armed guard next to me to get me to watch an Ultimate match for free, much less pay to watch one. :|
- Joined
- Jun 15, 2009
- Messages
- 4,059
Jim did come out of that era when disc golf was less popular than guts and mta, and so did I. Freestyle was king. But as disc golf grew and evolved, it and ultimate became the main disc sports. I was in Michigan from 1987-1999 and got to see the sport (dg) take off there, especially in and around Ann Arbor. Jim was always a big part of A3Disc, and seemed like he had a big passion for disc golf. I have played several rounds of dg with him myself and although he may have made a lot of money with the ultimate discs, it seemed to me that his heart was in disc golf.
