Distance plateaus... which one is most difficult to overcome?

[slowplastic]

Agree. Muscling a disc 375' can be done fairly easily. 450' is more glide oriented. Thus, you'll need some technique and real snap. The disc has to fly properly to go 450'+.

There's also a difference, obviously, between muscling a disc 375' like throwing a Shryke class disc on a flex vs. a line drive hyzer flip 10-15' off the ground to 375'. Muscling a disc 375' in this manner likely correlates to a 340-350' golf arm. Which is likely where the majority of typical players who are out there a lot are at.

This is also why SW22's point about distance driver distance being kind of hard to gauge vs. putters or mids, since those classes of discs relate more to golf distance I think. IME I find that a 400' golf shot is about a 300' putter and 330' midrange shot, although there are lots of people out there who can throw 400' and don't feel comfortable throwing their putters and mids that far cleanly.

 

[air show]

ABC... Always be changing. Grip, steps, heel plant, etc. This I have found helps me overcome many plateaus. I even practiced throwing from my knees to more concentrate on what my upper body was doing.

 

[billyjacko]

I always gauged my progress with how far I could throw my putter, mid, or fairway driver and how effortless it was.

There's also a difference, obviously, between muscling a disc 375' like throwing a Shryke class disc on a flex vs. a line drive hyzer flip 10-15' off the ground to 375'. Muscling a disc 375' in this manner likely correlates to a 340-350' golf arm. Which is likely where the majority of typical players who are out there a lot are at.

It's also important to point out the differences in putters/mids that can give you quite different gauges on distance. Right now, I can throw a low profile high glide putter like a Pure or an Aviar out close to 325' but I'm not getting past 310' with my Nova.

I've been using my stable fairway drivers with low fade to gauge distance more recently. I know if I release my Thunderbirds and Teebirds flat and hard, they're going to fly dead straight until the flight slows down. These disc's will let my know if I get too far over on them as they'll hold right and don't have the fight back of something with more fade. If i'm incrementally getting more distance and accuracy with my teebird, I know it will transition to the rest of the discs.

 

[SaROCaM]

I don't want you to hate anything. I agree with you....to a point. Having the distance certainly can provide another option, but to what degree it is superior is probably a question. As a noodle arm, with considerable experience, I have become pretty adept at playing a skip to reach holes with a distance driver. If you park a putter, and I park a driver.......I don't think your shot was better. Are the chances of your putter parking, better than my driver? Not so sure, seems they are just different shots?

For the record, I don't have a noodle arm because I want to keep down the crazy long throws.

When playing with a good buddy who is pushing 60 recently, I chained out an ace with my putter on a 200 some foot hole. My buddy grabs a glow champ destroyer and smashes chains and it sticks. I may have better form but he carded the 1.

Isn't this the results-over-process argument? What is missing is consistency and reliability. Results obviously matter, since there is an object to the game; however, consistent, predictable, reliable results are better. Sticking a putter shot is more consistent than skipping a driver. There is an added variable to the skip shot that the air shot doesn't have: an extra ground reaction. For every parked skip shot, how many skips hit a rock, or a tree root, or some fallen branch/twigs on the ground?

Aces are fun, but I'd rather have a consistent chance of birdies than some random chance ace. Sure, the guy carded a "1" but how did the rest of his card look? How will his next card look? And the card after that?

I mean, to each his own, and have fun however you like playing the game. For me, I would rather have the highest percentage option available.

 

[DiscinFiend]

I don't want you to hate anything. I agree with you....to a point. Having the distance certainly can provide another option, but to what degree it is superior is probably a question. As a noodle arm, with considerable experience, I have become pretty adept at playing a skip to reach holes with a distance driver. If you park a putter, and I park a driver.......I don't think your shot was better. Are the chances of your putter parking, better than my driver? Not so sure, seems they are just different shots?

For the record, I don't have a noodle arm because I want to keep down the crazy long throws.

Not trying to argue here, just clarifying my point. I agree on wide open holes (or just a few obstacles) it doesn't matter if I throw a putter & you throw a driver. If we both park it I wouldn't call the putter shot "better". I think there is an advantage to throwing slower discs on more technically shots, especially in the woods. For example, a low ceiling tunnel shot in the woods with only a 20' wide fairway. I throw a straight mid & you have to throw a driver or you won't be able to reach the hole. If you don't get your release angle correct, you have to worry about your driver skipping. My straight mid won't skip much at all. If we both hit a tree your driver is more likely to have a crazy kick. Plus with a driver you have to know your discs tendencies at different distances. Unless your throwing an overstable driver (which you shouldn't be on a woods dead straight tunnel). A Leopard thrown with hyzer at 250' will fade. If thrown at 350' on hyzer it will flip up. The flight characteristics of a straight mid won't change as dramatically from 250' to 350'. I used the Leopard as an example because there's no driver that can be thrown flat/straight & finish flat/straight with no skip. You can do that with mids/putters. You have to throw a hyzerflip to make a driver fly straight. Obviously there are guys who don't throw far who are magic with drivers in the woods. I just think being able to throw a mid/putter on those same shots is an huge advantage.

 

[Twmccoy]

ABC... Always be changing. Grip, steps, heel plant, etc. This I have found helps me overcome many plateaus. I even practiced throwing from my knees to more concentrate on what my upper body was doing.

I agree. If you're stuck at a plateau you know you can overcome, you'll have to change something. Continuing to do the same thing 672393 throws in a row won't suddenly result in 50' extra. What got me going for extra distance lately was a grip change as well as altering my arm path and point of release. My arm speed also got a little faster with a lot of practice.

I also agree with throwing mids far vs. drivers. I think practicing distance rips with discs like Buzzes helps your form and teaches you how to make a slow disc go far.

 

[Noco]

I think it builds in difficulty each step up in distance, because the techniques to get farther build on one another. Thus, the hardest in my opinion would be going from 450 to 500ft. I've been playing for 10 years off and on. For me the progression has gone something like this:

Getting to the 200-250' range comes with learning how to properly hold and release a disc level. Early in my disc golf career, once I learned to release nose-down and come across my body, this is the distance I could get and took about a month or two of playing.

Moving up to 300' was learning to control that level release whilst trying to put more power into the throw and incorporating a run-up/x-step. The run-up/x-step wasn't flawless, but just getting that momentum going forward was enough to generate the extra snap to get the disc to fly. This took several months of playing before I got comfortable at this distance

Jumping to 350' for me was getting comfortable and perfecting the run-up. For me, finding a routine that felt the same every time was key. This came between 1-2 years of playing for me.

The transition from 350' to 400' for me was learning to generate more torque with my body while maintaining control. The most difficult in my experience was learning to not "muscle up" too much when trying to throw the disc faster. When you do this, your body tenses up and it actually inhibits the faster movement you're looking for. Learning to stay smooth and fluid was the biggest key. 400' came to me after about 3-4 years of regularly playing, but took about 4-5 years before I could hit it consistently.

I think the key moving from 400-450' was adding controlled snap to my arm and wrist when throwing, on top of smooth form. This adds a bit of extra torque to the disc enabling the further flight. In my experience, when I started to consciously think about snapping wrist at the end of the throw is when I started seeing the gains to 450'. This was difficult to learn to do consistently without turning a disc over too much or grip locking it. I wasn't able to consistently hit 450' until I had been playing for 7 years or so. 450' is my maximum comfortable range I throw with relative accuracy, i.e. throwing on a relative low and straight line, with little to not run and subtle fade at the end (For me, my go-to is an MVP Photon for these shots).

Getting from 450' to 500' I feel is the most difficult, because it requires all of the form technique above, but really perfecting it all into one smooth motion. The smallest flaws in your form will keep you from getting there. I can hit 500' but it requires some flex on my shots and it's not something I'll comfortably try to throw on the course unless it's a wide open field without barriers and OB.

500'+ is when you put perfect form together with less stable discs and really air them out on huge flex lines. I think even at the highest level this is quite variable. It takes just the right angle of release to hit a huge distance line, and it's very easy to angle it to low and hyzer out to soon, or angle up to much and flip the disc over.

 

[1978]

Im having trouble with the 900Ft plateau.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

Im having trouble with the 900Ft plateau.

Throwing off the roof of a sky scraper helped me break through that plateau.

 

[Putt for D'oh]

I don't want you to hate anything. I agree with you....to a point. Having the distance certainly can provide another option, but to what degree it is superior is probably a question.

Hard to say to what degree but all other things being equal being able to throw farther has a huge benefit. If someone is constantly throwing pin high but ending up in jail and isn't getting birdie looks that obviously isn't helping, but it also isn't the case for everyone that can throw far.

This is all very similar to a bit of an age old thought on sports in general. You can't make up for natural speed and strength. Yes there are exceptions to the rule often. But for every hall of fame QB that can't run, or undersized running back or soccer player or pint sized middle infielder would increased size and or speed change the outcome? Also not just talking about the best of the best or top 0.01% but all of those mid level, semi-pro, struggling to make it athletes. When the work and effort and skills are all equal, size and strength are often what tips the scales.

If two people putt the same, approach the same from 150' in, hit lines with the same accuracy, the guy that can throw over 400' is going to have a considerable advantage over the guy that can just hit 300'.

From what limited competitive rounds I've played however, luckily for most noodle arms a lot of people with distance have no idea where the disc is going to end up when they throw it, so straight and steady can with the race. But as i've said quite a few times on this forum, with my journey distance and accuracy are building together and I believe anyone whose throwing far with proper form is also throwing accurately and that adds up to way way way more birdie opportunities.

 

[Twmccoy]

I think it builds in difficulty each step up in distance, because the techniques to get farther build on one another. Thus, the hardest in my opinion would be going from 450 to 500ft. I've been playing for 10 years off and on. For me the progression has gone something like this:

Getting to the 200-250' range comes with learning how to properly hold and release a disc level. Early in my disc golf career, once I learned to release nose-down and come across my body, this is the distance I could get and took about a month or two of playing.

Moving up to 300' was learning to control that level release whilst trying to put more power into the throw and incorporating a run-up/x-step. The run-up/x-step wasn't flawless, but just getting that momentum going forward was enough to generate the extra snap to get the disc to fly. This took several months of playing before I got comfortable at this distance

Jumping to 350' for me was getting comfortable and perfecting the run-up. For me, finding a routine that felt the same every time was key. This came between 1-2 years of playing for me.

The transition from 350' to 400' for me was learning to generate more torque with my body while maintaining control. The most difficult in my experience was learning to not "muscle up" too much when trying to throw the disc faster. When you do this, your body tenses up and it actually inhibits the faster movement you're looking for. Learning to stay smooth and fluid was the biggest key. 400' came to me after about 3-4 years of regularly playing, but took about 4-5 years before I could hit it consistently.

I think the key moving from 400-450' was adding controlled snap to my arm and wrist when throwing, on top of smooth form. This adds a bit of extra torque to the disc enabling the further flight. In my experience, when I started to consciously think about snapping wrist at the end of the throw is when I started seeing the gains to 450'. This was difficult to learn to do consistently without turning a disc over too much or grip locking it. I wasn't able to consistently hit 450' until I had been playing for 7 years or so. 450' is my maximum comfortable range I throw with relative accuracy, i.e. throwing on a relative low and straight line, with little to not run and subtle fade at the end (For me, my go-to is an MVP Photon for these shots).

Getting from 450' to 500' I feel is the most difficult, because it requires all of the form technique above, but really perfecting it all into one smooth motion. The smallest flaws in your form will keep you from getting there. I can hit 500' but it requires some flex on my shots and it's not something I'll comfortably try to throw on the course unless it's a wide open field without barriers and OB.

500'+ is when you put perfect form together with less stable discs and really air them out on huge flex lines. I think even at the highest level this is quite variable. It takes just the right angle of release to hit a huge distance line, and it's very easy to angle it to low and hyzer out to soon, or angle up to much and flip the disc over.

I would agree about 500'+ drives. I've never thrown a disc 500'. I know I've probably brushed past 450' on occasion, but I'm not at 500'. You really do need a big flex line with a glidey, somewhat understable disc. I think all the longest throws of my life have been on these lines. Now, drives like that seldom have use on the course and aren't easy to control. On the course I find myself more often opting for a flat release with a more stable disc. I want it to pop flat and maybe drift right a bit. I'm not looking for some huge, high, sweeping anny bomb.

If I'm feeling it on a long open hole I'll occasionally pull out the Shryke for a huge anny try. Start it left with some height and a little anny.

The margin for error is high when you try huge anny bombs with understable discs. If you're off even a little bit you're going to either flip the disc into the ground or stall it out because you threw it too high.

 

[slowplastic]

Im having trouble with the 900Ft plateau.

Simon and Dave Wiggins found that adding catastrophe-level winds to an 80MPH arm speed helps to push past 900'.

 

[billyjacko]

a lot of people with distance have no idea where the disc is going to end up when they throw it, so straight and steady can with the race. But as I've said quite a few times on this forum, with my journey distance and accuracy are building together and I believe anyone whose throwing far with proper form is also throwing accurately and that adds up to way way way more birdie opportunities.

Completely agree with that second part. When I first started working on distance, it was all flex lines and hyzer flipping light high speed discs. I was trying to get every bit of distance out of my really bad form. I could occasionally push past 400', but it was ugly and super inconsistent. Now that I'm working through the issues, every incremental distance boost has come with more accuracy. It's helped a ton with angle integrity, so my hyzers are way more accurate as well as longer. This has shaved a bunch of strokes off my game.

 

[1978]

Throwing off the roof of a sky scraper helped me break through that plateau.

Congrats!!!

 

[Twmccoy]

Completely agree with that second part. When I first started working on distance, it was all flex lines and hyzer flipping light high speed discs. I was trying to get every bit of distance out of my really bad form. I could occasionally push past 400', but it was ugly and super inconsistent. Now that I'm working through the issues, every incremental distance boost has come with more accuracy. It's helped a ton with angle integrity, so my hyzers are way more accurate as well as longer. This has shaved a bunch of strokes off my game.

Light, flippy discs are kind of like crutches. They'll get the extra distance you seek, but it generally won't be accurate or earned. I agree you can use lousy mechanics to toss light plastic far. Its an easy trap to fall into because light discs have proliferated so much. You know you're making progress when you start getting more zing out of discs that had previously been just out of your power range. Lately I've been throwing flat and hard on the course. I want the disc to stand up and track right only a little before fading back to center.

The big anny bombs are fun, but on the course can be a nightmare to control.

Your body will tell you when you're throwing well. You'll feel each release and immediately know how well you hit it.