[Innova] Favorite type of Roc

[Three Putt]

Ontarios are the ****, I know alot of people including myself that love them. Even the old ones are sweet and therefore I dont agree with the bad mold talk. If it was so bad, why did they start making them again?

I've got a bunch of old Big Bird stamped Ontario's. I love them. If you are ever in the area, stop by and I'll let you...LOOK...at my Ontario's.

It depends on the kind of player you are. A lot of people just grip and rip and torque the crap out of everything they throw. If you do that to an Ontario, it will turn and burn. It's just not stable enough to overpower and get away with it. If you have smooth form and understand how to use some finesse, you can do anything with an Ontario. You can put an Ontario on a hyzer line and get it to hold that line if you know what you are doing. You can throw an Ontario into the wind if you know what you are doing. If you just grip it and rip it, you can't do any of those things with an Ontario. You CAN just grip it and rip it with a Rancho and get away with it due to the extra stability, so it makes it a better mold for most people. Most...not all.

Personally, I like the Ontario Roc. I like the Discraft Comet better. It has a larger diameter than the Ontario Roc and gets better glide. If you use smooth form and power down on the Comet, that extra glide kicks in and it flies farther that the Ontario Roc for me. Other than that they are very similar discs...great all around discs that you can put on any line IF you know what you are doing that are mis-characterized as turnover discs becasue they will turn over if you don't know what you are doing.

 

[billnchristy]

I just ordered a Latitude 64 Core. For some reason it intrigued the hell out of me...I will let you guys know how it turns out.

 

[thenamesben]

I'm currently in love with the Super Rocs, Rancho, of course. They beat in slower than a DX, which is great for me because I seem to be finding a bunch of trees lately...

 

[Three Putt]

The way I read it was the plastic was cheap/bad. The mold made them turnover, so they stopped making them. Then there was a high demand for a turnover roc and the mold was brought back with grade "A" plastic.

Off topic, but who am I to resist a good thread drift?

I sold discs at the time, and the recreational players loved the cheap plastic. It was smooth and felt hard and stiff and looked really nice. The rec players didn't notice the inconsistencies in the discs. When Innova fixed the problem, I had a really hard time selling the new discs to the rec players. The plastic felt softer and it wasn't as smooth and it had appearance flaws. The rec players would complain that the disc looked like they were damaged and they wanted a discount. The serious players were buying them like hotcakes. The plastic had a lot more grip and was a lot more durable than the smooth hard plastic it replaced.

Discraft had a problem at the time as well with the Tournament Pro plastic. The really good Tourney Pro discs had a lot of resin that would streak up on the surface of the disc. We called it "Cyclone dust," and those discs had the best grip EVER. The rec players wouldn't touch them with a 10 ft pole. The resin streaks made the disc look scratched up, and the rec players were NOT going to pay $7.00 for a scratched-up disc.

The worst plastic on the market at the time was the Lightning plastic. It just was not very durable. However, Lightning used to mix colors and the result was "swirl" discs that looked cool. Before the tie-dye discs, the Lightning swirl discs were the most colorful discs you could get. I sold a TON of Lightning discs to the rec players who would not buy the Innova and Discraft discs with the cosmetic flaws.

So, buyer beware. What you see is not always what you get.

What were we talking about? Oh, yeah...Rocs. Rocs are great. You should get some.

 

[Dillon_Gourley]

I am intrigued by your disctory.

 

[XxInnovaxX]

thanks for the info three putt...now everything makes a LOT more sense
+1 !! or -1 on the scorecard, however you wanna look at it

 

[XxInnovaxX]

Interesting, I was just thinking of posting a similar thread. I have been throwing a FLX Buzz for about a year and really like it BUT everyone talks about the Roc and how awesome it is. So, I wanted to try it out for myself and see if I like it. Between the molds which one do you consider the best/most versatile. Current? Classic? Ontario? San Marino? "Something really cool that I don't even know about yet?"

yea i started throwing mid ranges just a couple weeks ago and i had an old buzzz, i cant remember if it was elite z or some other type of plastic, im not sure, then i lost it and went looking for another one. thats when i stumbled upon the flx buzzz.....it felt great in the hand but thats about the only thing i liked about it, i dont know if i just lost confidence in it or what but i couldnt hit the same lines i used to hit. and when it comes to midranges, i HAVE TO HAVE one that will hit any line or gap i put it on, and the inconsistency of the flx buzzz wasnt workin for me. there was a guy out on the course selling discs the other day and he had a used roc he was selling for 3 bucks(not sure what type it is, its blank on top.). and so i was like oh well its only 3 bucks, i spend more on a pack of smokes so why not get it and see what it can do. well right off the bat, the first hole i came to i had a bad drive and had to throw from the ****, and BAM, i hit a gap that was maybe two discs wide!! definitely a great start...and so far i keep on liking it more and more.

i dont have my disc on me right now, its outside in the truck and its raining and i really dont feel like going and getting it but i was wondering if anybody knows what mold my roc might be.
it is blank on top, from wear i guess, and the bottom has a guy(cartoon character) holding up a disc that says roc on top of the disc. i havnt looked at the side yet, but any clue at what it might be? ill post pics later if i cant figure it out for myself

 

[Three Putt]

I am intrigued by your disctory.

Where I worked nobody got disc golf, so I pretty much did it all myself. I personally opened the boxes and checked inventory and stocked shelves becasue nobody else seemed to understand that if you ran out of Rocs you couldn't just slide some Sharks over there go on about your day. It was before the Internet and there were not a lot of resources to find out about discs, so I had to make my own displays and promotional posters. I probably personally handled 45,000 golf discs during the 90's. I threw a bunch of discs I never seriously considered putting into my bag just so I could tell other players what they did. So if it's the 90's, I usually have a pretty good idea. After that I'm as lost as everybody else. I don't know what made and old mold beast more stable that the new mold Beast. I've never thrown either one. I just happened to be selling discs when all the mold changing for the Roc was taking place.

 

[Three Putt]

i dont have my disc on me right now, its outside in the truck and its raining and i really dont feel like going and getting it but i was wondering if anybody knows what mold my roc might be.
it is blank on top, from wear i guess, and the bottom has a guy(cartoon character) holding up a disc that says roc on top of the disc. i havnt looked at the side yet, but any clue at what it might be? ill post pics later if i cant figure it out for myself

It's a "Roc bottom." Those are all Rancho's as well. It's just a DX Roc with a blank top and the stamp on the bottom,

 

[Three Putt]

yea i started throwing mid ranges just a couple weeks ago and i had an old buzzz, i cant remember if it was elite z or some other type of plastic, im not sure, then i lost it and went looking for another one. thats when i stumbled upon the flx buzzz.....it felt great in the hand but thats about the only thing i liked about it, i dont know if i just lost confidence in it or what but i couldnt hit the same lines i used to hit. and when it comes to midranges, i HAVE TO HAVE one that will hit any line or gap i put it on, and the inconsistency of the flx buzzz wasnt workin for me.

FLX can cause players some problems. Really, FLX was designed to be used in the cold. Plastic stiffens in the cold, so it tends to crack. It also can get hard to grip a disc in the cold. FLX is floppy, so when it stiffens up it's not too stiff and it has a great grip even if it gets wet snow on it.

Now, you are in Texas. In the Texas heat the FLX is not going to stiffen up and can tend to flop around as you release the disc, causing an inconsistent release.

I'd say the mold isn't the problem, it's that damn FLX plastic. If you got a Buzzz in Z or ESP or X or D it would probably be fine.

 

[XxInnovaxX]

so is a "roc bottom" a decent disc or is it one of the p.o.s. you were talking about?

 

[XxInnovaxX]

so answer this for me please

1.most overstable roc=

2. best for straight shot =

3. best turnover =

 

[Dillon_Gourley]

so is a "roc bottom" a decent disc or is it one of the p.o.s. you were talking about?

It's just a regular one. Most common.

A good one, that is if it works for you .

 

[Three Putt]

so is a "roc bottom" a decent disc or is it one of the p.o.s. you were talking about?

The Roc bottoms are really no different than a regular stamped DX Roc. It should be a good...scratch that, it should be a GREAT disc.

so answer this for me please

1.most overstable roc=

2. best for straight shot =

3. best turnover =

If you are talking molds, it goes like this:

1.most overstable roc=Rancho

2. best for straight shot=San Marino

3. best turnover=Ontario

The Champ Rocs and KC Rocs are going to be more stable than a DX Roc, which is pretty much the case with any mold.

 

[BrotherDave]

Man, I'm gonna fail this midterm.

 

[Three Putt]

Man, I'm gonna fail this midterm.

It's not that bad. There have been as many mold variations to the TeeRex in the three years it has been out as the Roc has had in 20 years. People just make a big deal about Rocs because they are awesome!

 

[XxInnovaxX]

are you serious about the teerex??? i thought there was just the pro, champ, and star

 

[XxInnovaxX]

this was my first ace disc, a yellow star teerex 172g, since then ive bought 2 or 3 other ones exactly identical and they all felt the same to me

 

[billnchristy]

I just realized tonight after playing a round at ERP that my 150 class Gazelle and Shark are Ontarios and my wife's stingray is a San Marino.

 

[Three Putt]

I just realized tonight after playing a round at ERP that my 150 class Gazelle and Shark are Ontarios and my wife's stingray is a San Marino.

No problems, man.

All the locations in the tooling tell you is where Innova was when that mold piece was created. The Shark and Gazelle were both released in the early 90's when Innova was located in Ontario, CA. The Stingray is an older disc that came out before they had a plant and had the San Marino location.

The Stingray is another example of Innova hoochy-coo with the disc molds. The Stingray top and core combination was easy to spot becasue the tooling that said "Innova-Champion Discs, INC." was really faint, as was the last few numbers in the patent #. The part that said "San Marino, CA. 91108-8368" stood out really well. That tooling was on the Original Cobra, the Moray and the Millennium Sentinel, so you knew those discs used the same top and core as the Stingray.

A few years ago I guess that top part of the mold wore out, and Innova decided to replace it with the second Cobra top. The second Cobra top had "Ontario" in the tooling, so it was easy to spot when they changed it. You will hear these called "Ontario Stingrays" or "flat-top Stingrays." The first run of Star Stingrays were run with the Cobra top. They were quite a bit more stable than the original Stingrays.

Then they "replaced" the Stingray top, but when you look at the new Stingrays the difference just jumps out at you. Seriously, a drunken monkey could have cut a closer mold piece. Anyway, the tooling on these new Stingrays says "www.innovadiscs.com" instead of a city location.

So there is another example of an Innova disc with a lot of mold variations. There are more. Plenty more. The Roc is not an isolated case at all.