[Question] Firebirds Illegal!

[Emoney]

I say either use the rule on all companys or lose the rule. PDGA brought this on themselves for banning a disc, this is a real issue now. Way to go pdga lol like ur plate wasnt already overflowing


on a side note, i met manti teo gf on eharmony and i fell in love with her as well, b@@ch is breakin alot of hearts lately

 

[Three Putt]

Where Three Putt with a funny picture and a thread lock when you need him

Hey, let's keep this one going...

I've never met Greg (the OP) that I recall, but everybody I know in the Lou give him a :thmbup: for being a good guy. An interesting rumor my old St. L discing buddies told me is that he either currently works or formerly worked at Gateway.

 

[dagwood112]

An interesting rumor my old St. L discing buddies told me is that he either currently works or formerly worked at Gateway.

Is it just me, or did it just get a little shadier in here?

 

[who-dat]

So the OP is rumored to work/have worked for Gateway....opcorn:

 

[Emoney]

iam a huge wizard fan so im all for the OP, this is def not a DB move, everybody wants an even playing field

 

[theyellow_bear]

fuel- metallica popped in my head just now

 

[Three Putt]

Personally I hate that the Wizards are getting picked on. I love stiff putters; I try to find the stiffest ones I can find. I started using stiff putters on the recommendation of a pro disc golfer 17 years ago. He used to help me go through the stacks of Aviars in the shop at White Birch and pick out the "good ones." As softer putters like the Omega SS came out, I came to appreciate the consistency I got from stiff-as-a-board putters and I never noticed any catching advantage from soft putters. I've received bad advice from pro disc golfers before, but this advice was spot-on IMO. The pro disc golfers name? Dave McCormack.

 

[tbird888]

Personally I hate that the Wizards are getting picked on. I love stiff putters; I try to find the stiffest ones I can find. I started using stiff putters on the recommendation of a pro disc golfer 17 years ago. He used to help me go through the stacks of Aviars in the shop at White Birch and pick out the "good ones." As softer putters like the Omega SS came out, I came to appreciate the consistency I got from stiff-as-a-board putters and I never noticed any catching advantage from soft putters. I've received bad advice from pro disc golfers before, but this advice was spot-on IMO. The pro disc golfers name? Dave McCormack.

:clap: <-- For not locking the thread and for confirming what I finally realized after trying the softest putters I could find despite the terrible results.

 

[Three Putt]

iam a huge wizard fan so im all for the OP, this is def not a DB move, everybody wants an even playing field

I'm not really saying it was, but you need to be open about things. To me, either a Firebird passes or it doesn't. You have to test more than one, though.

So, uh...anybody got some really stiff Wizards they want to unload now that they are illegal?

 

[The Hammer]

I'm not really saying it was, but you need to be open about things. To me, either a Firebird passes or it doesn't. You have to test more than one, though.

So, uh...anybody got some really stiff Wizards they want to unload now that they are illegal?

No, but I do have a couple Medium Voodoos I can part with. Stiff as a rock.

 

[dagwood112]

I'm not really saying it was, but you need to be open about things. To me, either a Firebird passes or it doesn't. You have to test more than one, though.

+1

Nothing wrong with testing other discs. If PDGA is going to enforce the rule, it should be enforced across the board.

However, if the rumor is true that the OP is, or was, an employee of the company that just had a disc pulled, that's a material fact that was omitted in the OP.

 

[Three Putt]

:clap: <-- For not locking the thread and for confirming what I finally realized after trying the softest putters I could find despite the terrible results.

Davey Mac and I don't get along for other reasons and he probably thinks I have nothing good to say about him, but as a disc golfer talking to another disc golfer he gave me the best advice I got back in the day. Stop carrying 15 different discs; pick four or five and cycle them? Davey Mac told me that. Stop throwing Vipers at 250' holes and figure out how to drive with a putter? Davey Mac told me that. Use a stiff putter? Davey Mac told me that. Stop trying to practice on the course; get in a field and throw? Davey Mac told me that. The basic foundations of the advice I give new players today is just repeating what Davey Mac told me in 1995.

 

[KniceZ]

I read most but not the posts about this and still don't understand how they decided the flex limit. What's the scientific basis for the value. Why is it not different for drivers versus putters. Is it solely the force to cause concussion?

Regardless they either need to drop the rule or enforce it universally.

BTW - I disagree with those that are mad at the OP for raising the issue. It's up to the entire DG community to enforce the rules. The players in a tournament regulate themselves.

 

[Emoney]

I'm not really saying it was, but you need to be open about things. To me, either a Firebird passes or it doesn't. You have to test more than one, though.

So, uh...anybody got some really stiff Wizards they want to unload now that they are illegal?

right but we all know how inconsistent gateway is, the chances that all mediums wouldnt pass is rediculous, gateways base plastic is horribly inconsistent which should work in there favor in this case........

"a few stiffies must of slipped through the cracks"
or
"i plead the fif"

sayings from dave............could have avoided this big issue pdga has on there hands....maybe???? idk?????

 

[Three Putt]

right but we all know how inconsistent gateway is, the chances that all mediums wouldnt pass is rediculous, gateways base plastic is horribly inconsistent which should work in there favor in this case........

"a few stiffies must of slipped through the cracks"
or
"i plead the fif"

sayings from dave............could have avoided this big issue pdga has on there hands....maybe???? idk?????

I think Gateway has been making too-stiff putters for years without thinking twice about it because nothing has ever been done about it. I think Innova and Discraft have as well. Anybody really think that the Cam Todd Challengers or 10X KC Pro Aviars would have passed this?

Also, wouldn't disc design have a lot to do with this? Wouldn't it be easier for say a Magnet to flex as opposed to a Wizard just due to the bead?

 

[scarpfish]

Beavis: Fire! Fire! Firebird!
Butt-Head: Umm Beavis, that disc is illegal now. Didn't you read this thread?
Beavis: Reading sucks!! Illegal? Cool. Let's go outside and chuck it at joggers!
Butt-Head: Heh, heh. You said chuck.
​

 

[dagwood112]

^Awesome.

 

[wake911]

I think Gateway has been making too-stiff putters for years without thinking twice about it because nothing has ever been done about it. I think Innova and Discraft have as well. Anybody really think that the Cam Todd Challengers or 10X KC Pro Aviars would have passed this?

Also, wouldn't disc design have a lot to do with this? Wouldn't it be easier for say a Magnet to flex as opposed to a Wizard just due to the bead?

So the PDGA should make a sweeping statement that going forward, discs will be more regularly tested before mass production, and randomly throughout. If they fail, production must be stopped until the issue is fixed. Current discs should be grandfathered in for X # of years. All molding going forward must have batch #'s molded on them. Then if recalls are required it is easy to track. Also, a list of illegal discs can be posted online, and TD's can have a list as well. If a disc is questioned, it can easily be checked against the list.

Extra work for manufacturer? Yes. Extra $1 a disc charged? probably. Extra $1-2 for PDGA membership? Likely. But then it would be easy to test, check, and know legality of discs. I highly doubt anyone would check a bag (except at NT's and Majors, where they would be checked prior to each round (it'd take no time really, right before Tee-off. Each player should know if their stuff wouldn't pass, since they'd have access to the official list of recalled discs as well.))

If the PDGA actually cares about this rule, that is a way to start enforcing it without completely ticking off the Disc Golfing Community. If they don't care to do this extra work, then the rule should be removed.

Edit: And I am a major fan of stiff firebirds, so this would suck, i hate floppy discs. But as long as the rules are laid out, with a grandfather clause for a period of time for learning new discs, i would accept this.

Edit 2: And if i were a manufacturer, especially new (DD, Prodigy) I'd be insuring that every run of my discs meets the test if it stays on. Seems easier to start a solid testing program during initial manufacturing, instead of 20+ years of doing the same thing.

 

[Tpro]

^^ Best post I've read/seen since becoming a member of this forum!(scarpfish)

 

[tbird888]

Davey Mac and I don't get along for other reasons and he probably thinks I have nothing good to say about him, but as a disc golfer talking to another disc golfer he gave me the best advice I got back in the day. Stop carrying 15 different discs; pick four or five and cycle them? Davey Mac told me that. Stop throwing Vipers at 250' holes and figure out how to drive with a putter? Davey Mac told me that. Use a stiff putter? Davey Mac told me that. Stop trying to practice on the course; get in a field and throw? Davey Mac told me that. The basic foundations of the advice I give new players today is just repeating what Davey Mac told me in 1995.

I've heard you mention on here that you and he weren't buddies by any stretch. From the limited conversations I've had with him through email when buying Wizards and at the BG Ams FlyMart, I could tell he's not only incredibly passionate about the sport but full of knowledge (Nikko wouldn't be where he is today without it). Your/his knowledge has served me well since joining.