[Discraft] Force Love

[smarkquart]

Yesterday I received the ESP Force I purchased on a lark. This one was purchased online, unseen. It is flatter than the ones I felt up in the store the other day, and this yellow ESP plastic looks more Z than ESP. It reminds me of the opaque runs of Lucid/ Opto I have seen out of that other manufacturer. Regardless, it actually felt good in the hand.

Today I was able to get in a few rips. None of them were full power, but they were lines where I needed significant distance and accuracy. So, I am not throwing full power, therefore fully expecting a more overstable flight. I was completely wrong. My maximum distance hovers between 380-420, but I was only shooting for about 340 or so today, and all four throws, this ESP Force held a flat line almost identical to my Worlds. My Worlds have the slightest of turn before eventually fighting back, and are the most consistently longest throwers I have. This Force was a touch more high speed stable, but almost start to finish dead straight at that reduced power. Its fade was not more than the World, but healthy while only the last 5 to 10% of the flight.

Because of winter and whatnot, it will be a while before I can just unleash it at full power, but I am now curious. Not that I am looking to replace my Worlds, because this Force came up about 5 feet short, but if it seasons in and develops a slight turn like my Worlds have, it may be able to etch them out.

But the real question is, do I have a fluke Force? It is not translucent like Z, but it is not as solid as I have seen other ESP Forces. I may have to pick up another ESP and or try to track down another one like the one I now have. If I am going with it, sadly, I need about five or six of the same run.

 

[slowplastic]

But the real question is, do I have a fluke Force? It is not translucent like Z, but it is not as solid as I have seen other ESP Forces. I may have to pick up another ESP and or try to track down another one like the one I now have. If I am going with it, sadly, I need about five or six of the same run.

I've only thrown Z, and only a couple, but same experience for me. Worlds have more harsh late fade at more speed so they skip more, and they have more turn. They are faster and sleeker shaped though, which I actually don't like.

The Force looks like it's not going as far because it's just so straight, and the fade is consistent but more like a "2.5-3" than the World which can be a "3-3.5" hard hard fade. But then I end up throwing the Force as far, even though it was on a tighter line. It also handles headwind and crosswind better than the World.

When I've been able to smash on the Force in the past it does show a bit of turn, like a -0.5/2.5 flight that is definitely overstable, but holds straight for a long time first. Good consistent overstable placement distance driver to me...not max D for me and also not a "will not turn under any situation ever" disc, but very reliable and good glide for that stability.

 

[ThrowaEnvy]

My first run ESP forces were solid discs. Still got them. Don't have the arm to throw them but once they break in they are freaky better than the Nuke.. Got an ace at 330' in the wind with one paid $200 lone ace in the provincials... also threw it at the nationals and managed a 400' drive in a cross/headwind.. First time OB and longest drive ever without a downhill slope..and FAST don't turn your head or the shot is over.

 

[Twmccoy]

ESP Force

Tossed a Force in the bag for a couple rounds today. I hadn't thrown one in a good while. This one is ESP first run, 173g.

Well, the Force is every bit as beefy as I remember. IMO this disc is only moderately similar to a Destroyer. It has a deeper rim, seems slower, and just has a clunky flight in general compared to a Destroyer. The Force needs every bit of arm I possess to fly flat for any length. It has a spectacular dumping fade at the end of flight. Thrown side by side with the star Destroyer the Force was coming up about 20' short on almost every throw. It simply doesn't flex out or penetrate like a Destroyer does.

Interestingly, the Force worked well on forced anny shots. If I really put a lot of anny on it the disc would hold that line pretty well for a good portion of the flight. Thrown hard and flat there was maybe the tiniest hint of high speed turn on some shots. I was probably getting about 370' out of this Force. I had to earn every foot of that. Glide seemed lacking and the disc simply didn't penetrate well. Accuracy was good. With a disc this overstable you pretty much know where its going on every shot.

I'm no Paul Mcbeth, but I still find this disc too beefy and short to use for routine long distance bombing. I feel like the Force lacks glide and has a really hard and sudden fade that cuts down distance noticeably. The Force seems to have a bit of a slow flight too. It lacks the zip of a Destroyer. Frankly, this disc reminds me more of an Xcal than a Destroyer. I get similar results from the Xcal as I did this Force today.

ESP Force 1st run: 12, 4, -0.5, 4. It actually will wiggle right a tiny bit on very hard throws. The fade kicks in HARD and suddenly though. This disc to me flies like the absolute beefiest of Destroyers.

 

[slowplastic]

I'm no Paul Mcbeth, but I still find this disc too beefy and short to use for routine long distance bombing. I feel like the Force lacks glide and has a really hard and sudden fade that cuts down distance noticeably. The Force seems to have a bit of a slow flight too. It lacks the zip of a Destroyer. Frankly, this disc reminds me more of an Xcal than a Destroyer. I get similar results from the Xcal as I did this Force today.

This might be an altitude factor too with your arm speed. Usually you get better results than me because your power is another tier above mine, but the Force might just be stable enough that it doesn't matter. I loved throwing it at sea level, it held really straight and would have a hint of turn, and another 20' consistently over my OS Destroyer while still handling most wind situations. It could also really hold slight FH flex shots, which is something I don't throw often as I am a FH hyzer flipper. But when I went up to elevation it lost all that extra distance and it's almost the same characteristics as my OS Destroyer without as much HSS in reserve for 20MPH wind days. Also I have not thrown ESP in the Force and I don't doubt that some are much beefier than what I have tried.

For reference I also have a beefy champ Teebird that was awesome at sea level, but lost 25' at altitude for me and got clunky and dumpy. Some discs just really expose that extra stability if they aren't up to speed/glide.

Edit: FWIW I bag 3 Destroyers and only throw the Force in there for windy days or if I want to practice certain shots so it's not like I think it's a better disc for me. It just impressed me more than expected when I was able to get it up to speed at sea level and I really enjoyed it then.

 

[Twmccoy]

Yeah, I probably won't be bagging the Force full time anytime soon. I didn't hate the disc, but I don't really have a place for it. I'd basically have to get rid of my Xcal to bag the Force.

I actually can throw the Force on a flat line, but it doesn't stay flat for long. This disc likes to get left... and quickly. One thing I will say is if you mis-throw this disc even an iota the results are very poor. The Force has to be thrown VERY hard to get anything resembling a flat flight. Miss it a little and you get nothing but a short hyzer stall.

 

[Monkeypaws]

How do these fly in Pro-D? I had a Pro-D Nuke that was beat DX Leopard flippy out of the box.

 

[DanJon]

I really liked the 1st Run ESP's, but newer runs seem way more OS.

I need to pick up a few Hurricanes to try out before the Force SS comes out.

 

[jjmiller]

Yeah, I probably won't be bagging the Force full time anytime soon. I didn't hate the disc, but I don't really have a place for it. I'd basically have to get rid of my Xcal to bag the Force.

I actually can throw the Force on a flat line, but it doesn't stay flat for long. This disc likes to get left... and quickly. One thing I will say is if you mis-throw this disc even an iota the results are very poor. The Force has to be thrown VERY hard to get anything resembling a flat flight. Miss it a little and you get nothing but a short hyzer stall.

I had one Z Force(lost it on a water shot) and currently have two of the Sparkle FLX Ledgestone ones. They all are/were pretty overstable, like you said. I would also compare them to an XCal, PD2, or beefy Destroyer. But the first Force I ever threw was a domey ESP from a used bin that was Daedalus flippy.

And I wouldn't say that the Force lacks glide. They just start out more overstable than the "normal" Destroyer. I threw one of those Sparkle FLX's on a high forehand anhyzer that rode it all the way out to legitimately just over 400'. And it's still essentially in new condition.

A Force has basically the same rim width as a Destroyer according to my calipers. It's nose is at least as sharp(XCal is a little more blunt, as you probably know). Doesn't feel any deeper to me. I think a Force can probably substitute for a Destroyer just about perfectly- depending on the specific Destroyer or getting some wear on the Force...

 

[ThrowaEnvy]

All I can keep saying is it has to break in... a broken in esp force is freaking magical and more like 12 5 .5 1.5. It can be thrown like a lazer to a late fade, handles anhyzer way better than a Nuke and can be banked on a big S shot..

Out of the box 12 4 0 4..

 

[ThrowaEnvy]

Crap timed out.. Damn dial up... NR

Broken in ESP first run Force at sea level 12 5 -.5 1.5 is what I meant... and the stability is only that high because it dumps fast not deep.

If you have never thrown your Force long enough to get it there you totally won't understand. I got a 166 ish and 172 Z Force as well and they're both a unthrowable pig for me... other first run ESP I have still need six months or for me to lend em to Kyle... traded him for an Avenger SS for a while liked it but not enough to give up on the Force cuz I liked the rim etc.. When I got it back after two or three punishing months it was amazing totally different disc.

 

[Twmccoy]

All I can keep saying is it has to break in... a broken in esp force is freaking magical and more like 12 5 .5 1.5. It can be thrown like a lazer to a late fade, handles anhyzer way better than a Nuke and can be banked on a big S shot..

Out of the box 12 4 0 4..

The one I threw today was definitely on the new side. I've never thrown a Force enough to break it in or see any real changes in flight.

 

[Muddyboots]

I cycle Forces like some guys cycle Rocs. It can take a year to notice any change in the flight, and 3 years to approach flippy. But, if you're patient, they can be absolute magic. The new ESPs are plenty OS, but have more glide than most Zs. The Big Zs are really nice. Like a year old Z, off the shelf.

 

[MANBURGARLAR]

Was anyone brave enough to order a new 2019 ledgestone Glo Z force? Interested to hear how stable they are.

 

[rusch_bag]

I'm just out here looking for a 165-170 ESP force but no one has any ESP forces in stock let alone at a lighter weight.

 

[MANBURGARLAR]

I'm just out here looking for a 165-170 ESP force but no one has any ESP forces in stock let alone at a lighter weight.

I'm pretty sure amazon still has some older circle stamped regular ESP forces.

I got my 170g one off of there and it flies way better than Z's.

 

[Jolt]

I dont have a "big arm" and only bag Thrashers and Trespass as my distance drivers. . .but we have hade alot of wind lately so i put a Z Force in the bag for headwind drives.

But i´m unsure to have a disc in the bag for just windy days. . .it´s HARD to practice with a OS disc when the wind is down

Do you go out on windy days to practice headwind shots`. . and do you have special discs for that?

 

[wolfmandragon]

I dont have a "big arm" and only bag Thrashers and Trespass as my distance drivers.
....

Do you go out on windy days to practice headwind shots`. . and do you have special discs for that?

I like throwing light drivers, so for me, I just go up in weight for a headwind shot.

I will throw a Zone, Drone or jOKERI in the bag on super windy days, as I already throw max weight putters and lids.

BTW, the swirl ESP Jenkins Thrasher molded up more stable than the normal ones.

 

[MANBURGARLAR]

I dont have a "big arm" and only bag Thrashers and Trespass as my distance drivers. . .but we have hade alot of wind lately so i put a Z Force in the bag for headwind drives.

But i´m unsure to have a disc in the bag for just windy days. . .it´s HARD to practice with a OS disc when the wind is down

Do you go out on windy days to practice headwind shots`. . and do you have special discs for that?

We don't get high winds too often where I live. So when it does get gusty sometimes I will
Make a point of doing field work to see how my OS stuff responds.

I normally throw a crank as my primary distance driver, and pair it with a force for windy day or hyzer shots. The idea is that if the wind picks up on you out at the course or during a tournament, you club up in stability to get the same result in a headwind.

Example: throwing putter on a calm day is a banger gt for me. Windy day, same shot, I'm throwing a zone.

Calm day comet, windy day wasp. Etc.

 

[Jolt]

Btw, the swirl ESP Jenkins Thrasher molded up more stable than the normal ones.

Yes they are great. . i have a stack of Ti for my most US shots and a big stack of ESP Jenkins as my main thrower

I´m just tying out having a fast OS driver like the FORCE for windy days. . i normaly throw PIG. MD4 or PREDATOR in the wind