General Issues with the financial model of tournament disc golf coverage

[JTacoma03]

Jomez has distanced themselves from the other producers and quite frankly they make the other ones look dated. The best way to support Jomez imop is to simply keep watching their videos. The more plays, the higher the perceived audience, the more they can charge for commercials, etc.

I don't really agree with this tbh (my comparison points being SpinTV and CCDG). I think they have things they do better than others, and things they aren't as good at. The main differences are stylistic over technical prowess.

The one thing they have going for them is the flight tracker, but now CCDG is doing radar gun stats, so...you could kinda argue that one either way. Both of those things are more of a drain on time than tech.


Also - while I'm not advocating it's more sustainable - I definitely will say that contributing directly (Patreon, buying merch) does much more for the recipient than indirect contirbution (YouTube views -> Ads -> Monetization minus YT's cut). I suspect you mean direct ads or sponsored content, which is helpful but not lucrative yet, because it adds complications to the post-production workflow - which risks time and more potential mistakes. The worst is screwing up an advertising slot, because you gotta do the right thing and make it up to them, which cuts into the bottom line.

 

[DarkAce1978]

I think the big 3 of youtube DG content providers(ccdg, jomez, spintv) all do a great job and they all bring a slightly different style to the way they present it. I am sure a big part of why they do it is a love of the game and I am thankful for their efforts and I may just flip them a few bucks by the way of patreon in the future. Having said all that... pro sports and the cable, internet and phone industries all charge so much for their content and to distribute it, I am forced to pick and choose what I spend my hard earned $ on. Nowadays I don't spend a dime on pro sporting events or cable. As long as any DG content stays affordable I would be willing to support it but I wouldn't have a problem cutting the cord on it if it went the way of fat cat pro sports.

 

[lenfantsuave]

I look forward to the near future after all this internet ink has been spilled when all disc golfers will see the light and no longer complain and become good tithing members of the discgolf community. /s

This whole discussion seems pointless to me. If there is long term value and demand for the product we get through jomez and ccdg then the money will be available to fund them. There will always be arm chair directors who think they can do better regardless of how many walls of text you write on a forum.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

Jomez has distanced themselves from the other producers and quite frankly they make the other ones look dated. The best way to support Jomez imop is to simply keep watching their videos. The more plays, the higher the perceived audience, the more they can charge for commercials, etc.

Youtube doesnt like ads in video outside of their own system.

 

[F. Howl]

To anyone that watches a lot of disc golf coverage without an ad blocker, do you think those Tathata Golf instructional videos translate to disc golf? Because that wispy-handlebar mustache guy is pretty convincing...

 

[Zanguini]

slowplastic and sidewinder do link a number of golf videos over in the form review and strategy boards. So i wouldnt be surprised.

 

[araytx]

Jomez has distanced themselves from the other producers and quite frankly they make the other ones look dated. The best way to support Jomez imop is to simply keep watching their videos. The more plays, the higher the perceived audience, the more they can charge for commercials, etc.

I don't really agree with this tbh (my comparison points being SpinTV and CCDG). I think they have things they do better than others, and things they aren't as good at. The main differences are stylistic over technical prowess.

The one thing they have going for them is the flight tracker, but now CCDG is doing radar gun stats, so...you could kinda argue that one either way. Both of those things are more of a drain on time than tech.


Also - while I'm not advocating it's more sustainable - I definitely will say that contributing directly (Patreon, buying merch) does much more for the recipient than indirect contirbution (YouTube views -> Ads -> Monetization minus YT's cut). I suspect you mean direct ads or sponsored content, which is helpful but not lucrative yet, because it adds complications to the post-production workflow - which risks time and more potential mistakes. The worst is screwing up an advertising slot, because you gotta do the right thing and make it up to them, which cuts into the bottom line.

Said someone who actually does this business and knows the business model. He's not guessing.

And holy **** do people need to learn how to post on forums again or just want their own blog? I mean stfu already....

No one cares to read text walls and just make a ****ing point. Ive done it 10k times without that effort and more impact.. Wtf? :gross:

My posts take like maybe 30sec... That **** is a novel not worth reading on all ends.

So, is that better in your mind? (25 total words)

 

[davetherocketguy]

So, is that better in your mind? (25 total words)

YES!

 

[JTacoma03]

I think the big 3 of youtube DG content providers(ccdg, jomez, spintv) all do a great job and they all bring a slightly different style to the way they present it. I am sure a big part of why they do it is a love of the game and I am thankful for their efforts and I may just flip them a few bucks by the way of patreon in the future. Having said all that... pro sports and the cable, internet and phone industries all charge so much for their content and to distribute it, I am forced to pick and choose what I spend my hard earned $ on. Nowadays I don't spend a dime on pro sporting events or cable. As long as any DG content stays affordable I would be willing to support it but I wouldn't have a problem cutting the cord on it if it went the way of fat cat pro sports.

The good news is, I think that fat cat model is going the way of the dinosaurs. For so many years we were charged a premium for ESPN and the like, and cable providers would throw in all of these useless channels into one package so it seems like bang for your buck, but most of the money was going to a select few networks. The cable companies were paying for the "right" to offer it to their clients, while taking a cut for themselves of course. On top of that the cable networks get a share of the advertising slots, so they make money on both ends.

Netflix first broke the traditional cable syndication model, and it's been an all out race to have the best OTT services since then.

 

[JTacoma03]

I should note - if you want your favorite YouTube channel to get to advertisers quickly - engagement is a more precious metric to us than views. Liking, sharing, saving to playlists, and commenting are areas we all pay attention to (or should be). 3-4 years ago large viewcounts would get you noticed, but now advertising partners want to see that you're making content which has good social engagement. The theory being that if your videos only are passively viewed, they're not going to have the same follow through on sales as if your videos are watched by a community which actively interacts with one another and with the content.

 

[araytx]

I look forward to the near future after all this internet ink has been spilled when all disc golfers will see the light and no longer complain and become good tithing members of the discgolf community. /s

This whole discussion seems pointless to me. If there is long term value and demand for the product we get through jomez and ccdg then the money will be available to fund them. There will always be arm chair directors who think they can do better regardless of how many walls of text you write on a forum.

So true. And like the bathroom walls, anyone with a pen can write on it. I should let irresponsible comments roll off like the duck's back water.

 

[DiscFifty]

Also - while I'm not advocating it's more sustainable - I definitely will say that contributing directly (Patreon, buying merch) does much more for the recipient than indirect contirbution (YouTube views -> Ads -> Monetization minus YT's cut). I suspect you mean direct ads or sponsored content, which is helpful but not lucrative yet....

My point about actually watching videos being the best way to support video producers is simply because while the patreon income is GREAT and gives the producers immediate income, most advertisers, sponsors, etc, only care about one thing, "how big of an audience is going to see my ad?", and that's why the number of views is the #1 metric people outside of the sport are going to focus on when it comes down to investing their money. Increase the views and you will increase the revenue potential.

The content needs to be entertaining to people outside the sport. I think the Jomez stuff is just about there, I've shown friends and family who don't play disc golf, some tournament coverage and the reaction has been very positive. How do you get more people outside the sport to watch the videos? Just like any other "consumer product" you have to advertise your product.

 

[DiscFifty]

I should note - if you want your favorite YouTube channel to get to advertisers quickly - engagement is a more precious metric to us than views. Liking, sharing, saving to playlists, and commenting are areas we all pay attention to (or should be). 3-4 years ago large viewcounts would get you noticed, but now advertising partners want to see that you're making content which has good social engagement. The theory being that if your videos only are passively viewed, they're not going to have the same follow through on sales as if your videos are watched by a community which actively interacts with one another and with the content.

Interesting but not sure I 100% agree with it. Because how far down the social pipeline is the original advertiser getting benefit? Granted, if I pay for advertising in one of your videos and you upload the video to youtube, facebook, instagram, etc, etc, sure there is multi level benefit, but it all adds up to one thing...how many total views is that video getting?

Now for the company making the video, there is no doubt the liking, sharing, etc, is hugely important, that's how you drive...more views.

 

[Jenga54]

All the way up to the OP... your issue is that a handful of people are doing great things, and you are worried if they all stop that everything will end?

time to sit back and watch the free market economy do it's thing. some will survive and profit, most will end/stop/die.

also, if you're worried, set up automatic recurring bill -pay to your favorite content provider.

 

[araytx]

All the way up to the OP... your issue is that a handful of people are doing great things, and you are worried if they all stop that everything will end?

time to sit back and watch the free market economy do it's thing. some will survive and profit, most will end/stop/die.

also, if you're worried, set up automatic recurring bill -pay to your favorite content provider.

#1 -- I'm not.
#2 -- I do.

#3 -- my point is that all the people on these forums complaining, constructing, criticizing, 'whatever'-ing would make me, if I were a content producer, not want to read these forums about my coverage.

All that being said, Jonny V posted on facebook on a thread about this topic in ON THE BOX with Dixon Jowers:

"There are a few things to deconstruct here.
1. SmashBoxx (Terry & I) are not out on the road all the time. So we don't have the built in advantage of reduced lodging and travel costs throughout the tour. When we show up, it is because we had to fly or drive our entire crew in. $$$

2. Jomez makes approx $350 per 9 holes from Patreon. So if they have 8 videos in a weekend, that is: $2800 a weekend for them. And for the NT events they are doing FPO, so you can double that for NT events. Plus whatever Innova is providing for them and the PDGA for NT series. Then add the minimal amount that they make from YouTube every month. That could be anywhere from $1000-2000? I honestly am just guessing there.

3. SmashBoxx is paid directly from the DGPT, not from any other sponsor. The sponsors pay DGPT and the DGPT pays us a set amount. SmashBoxx makes no money from Patreon on any live broadcasts.

4. Like Dixon said, having the ads for us is a necessity that the viewers don't see all the walking that our camera guys do between holes. Some of the ads are good, some are not. But they are getting better year over year as the sponsors see the benefit of them. There is a reason that a Jomez full round is a total of about 50 min and a live round is 3.5.

And in my opinion, Jomez isn't paid enough. Nor is SmashBoxx to be honest for what both the crews do. But ultimately we all sacrifice because we love the sport."​

Clearly, while the ads are nice, they aren't close to funding coverage. Jomez looks like it is primarily funded by Patreon.

 

[araytx]

I should note - if you want your favorite YouTube channel to get to advertisers quickly - engagement is a more precious metric to us than views. Liking, sharing, saving to playlists, and commenting are areas we all pay attention to (or should be). 3-4 years ago large viewcounts would get you noticed, but now advertising partners want to see that you're making content which has good social engagement. The theory being that if your videos only are passively viewed, they're not going to have the same follow through on sales as if your videos are watched by a community which actively interacts with one another and with the content.

Interesting but not sure I 100% agree with it. Because how far down the social pipeline is the original advertiser getting benefit? Granted, if I pay for advertising in one of your videos and you upload the video to youtube, facebook, instagram, etc, etc, sure there is multi level benefit, but it all adds up to one thing...how many total views is that video getting?

Now for the company making the video, there is no doubt the liking, sharing, etc, is hugely important, that's how you drive...more views.

You do know that JTac is one of the content producers?? I think he has an understanding of what they expect.

 

[JTacoma03]

Interesting but not sure I 100% agree with it. Because how far down the social pipeline is the original advertiser getting benefit? Granted, if I pay for advertising in one of your videos and you upload the video to youtube, facebook, instagram, etc, etc, sure there is multi level benefit, but it all adds up to one thing...how many total views is that video getting?

Now for the company making the video, there is no doubt the liking, sharing, etc, is hugely important, that's how you drive...more views.

Viewcounts were important to traditional advertising models. I'm not saying they count for nothing, but in content marketing and influencer marketing methods engagement is far superior of a metric to track.

Gone are the days of "get your ad in front of as many people as possible" - the effectiveness of that style has bottomed out. Now it's about making your brand message and story resonate with a particular demographic that you want to appeal to.

 

[DiscFifty]

​

You do know that JTac is one of the content producers?? I think he has an understanding of what they expect.

As someone approaching 40 years... yes...40 years *...of online experience in sales, marketing, social engagement, there are always alternate views on the subject of online marketing, and that's what this is ultimately about.

* = BBS groups were our "facebook" back in the day.

 

[DiscFifty]

Viewcounts were important to traditional advertising models. I'm not saying they count for nothing, but in content marketing and influencer marketing methods engagement is far superior of a metric to track.

Gone are the days of "get your ad in front of as many people as possible" - the effectiveness of that style has bottomed out. Now it's about making your brand message and story resonate with a particular demographic that you want to appeal to.

Perhaps currently while the demographic reach is not that vast so they (disc golf related advertisers) want to exploit every possible end user interaction and get more bang for their buck, but in the future when the video views are there, you should be able to focus more on just selling ads at higher amounts without the need to drill down so much on the social pipeline. After all when the end user comes to your (the video producer's) facebook, instagram, etc, networks, etc, that's where YOU want to engage the user for your financial benefit the most by selling merch, advertising your videos, etc, etc.

As been brought up before...disc golf makes most if not all of it's money within the player network itself so that's also one of the problems you guys face. Perhaps the major disc golf content providers should get together with some of the bigger disc golf companies and try to get some funding to advertise your content to people (with sports interest) outside of disc golf. This would be a long term campaign, and a tax write off for everyone involved..lol.. but a way to promote the sport outside of our inner circle. The jomez stuff especially is pretty much ready for prime time and should be accepted as "legit sport's entertainment" viewing by anyone who enjoys sports.

 

[JTacoma03]

As someone approaching 40 years... yes...40 years *...of online experience in sales, marketing, social engagement, there are always alternate views on the subject of online marketing, and that's what this is ultimately about.

* = BBS groups were our "facebook" back in the day.

I mean sure there are alternate schools of thought, but it's widely known now that traditional ads have very little effect on target demos under 35yo.

That demo is where disc golf lives - 18-34yo males.