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[whentherainscome]

Vitals:
Years playing/experience: 3yrs casual/very bad, second year of trying to improve. (currently my 5th year)
Right/left-handed/ambidextrous: RH
Throwing Style: RHBH, utility: FH, OH, short rollers. I have more snap than power.
Golf Distance (avg/max*) for putter/mid/driver: Rhyno: 200/230'; Buzzz: 250/300'; Beast: 330/370'

Optional:
Age: 31
Sex: M
Injuries/handicaps?: nothing that affects my throw
Other sport proficiencies?: If I'm on my third Two Hearted, I am a monster at a shuffleboard table!
What do you like/dislike about your current bag?: Good selection, I never come across a line and think, "Man, if only I had a _____." Dislike: lots of molds, possible overlap and I can't convince myself to just settle on a setup for a while.
Specific areas of desired feedback: Areas of overlap, discs that might fit certain roles better.
Immediate and long-term goals: I've gained a LOT of distance this year, from an average 280/max 340 to an average 330/max 370'. I'd like to break 400' without picking up anything faster than the speed 10's I currently work with.
I recently got a set of PD's, and they've kicked a few molds out of my bag, and maybe could kick some more.

Here's where I'm at:

Bag: Innova's biggish one.

Drivers (weight/plastic/model/(condition)/use):
??? Champ Beast - used, ugly, very neutral stable, can handle some wind. Main driver before my PD's, none of which fly like this.
171 Champ Beast - beat, has some turn. I used to worm burn this thing, but I've smoothed out to where I can pound a nice S line out as far as the one above.
172 Champ Beast - New, flies nearly the same as the 171, maybe a little more turn.
168 P-Line PD - Hyzer flips, less hyzer for a lot of right movement w/o losing altitude. The few times I've powered it down (not something I usually think to do) it's gone very well.
167 S-Line PD - Hyzers. I was trying to beat this in and discovered I have a very serviceable 250' thumber, so I use it for that too!
172 C-Line PD - Domey, +mold. Kicked my Crush and Pred out of the bag, much better lift than either of them, and powers down to handle most of what I'd use the Pred for.

Fairways:
171 Star TB - Straight/hyzer/lowceiling/flex. I generally don't use my TB's for distance drives.
166 Champ TB - See above. Trying to beat the star more to differentiate the two.
173 Opto River - This guy was my main driver for a few months this winter/spring. I have been focusing on the Beasts/PD's for a couple months and I've lost a bit of touch with the Rivers. Annies, line shaping, the lift on these is great for mild up-hill shots.
168 GL River - A tad flippier, turnover shots.

Others:
172 Champ TL+ - Recently took all the fairway drivers from my stack out to the field and had the longest rips with this guy.
171 GL Saint - New. I like it so far, but I've only had it for a couple rounds.
171 Champ Viking - I've worn the flashing off, so it has some turn now. Extremely controllable and I've had a hard time taking it out of my bag.

Mids:
170 Opto Fuse - new to me, but I immediately found it much more comfortable in my hand than a Meteor and it covers the same shots - made my Buzzz SS obsolete as well. I've had good luck throwing it 70' as well as hyzer flipping it to 300'+
177 Z Buzzz - straight with some fade.
176 GL Pain - overstable mid
178 ESP FLX Drone - Utility. Wind, skip, severe flex shots FH and BH, short rollers. This and the C-PD cover all my OS needs.

Putters:
??? Yeti Pro Aviar - Putter. I need to get this guy on a scale so I can get some back ups in the same weight, it's not the same as my 175 yetis..
176 Opto Pure - stable/understable approach/driving putter
170 Pro Rhyno - Overstable approach/driving putter, headwind putter

 

[BrotherDave]

Others:
172 Champ TL+ - Recently took all the fairway drivers from my stack out to the field and had the longest rips with this guy.
171 GL Saint - New. I like it so far, but I've only had it for a couple rounds.
171 Champ Viking - I've worn the flashing off, so it has some turn now. Extremely controllable and I've had a hard time taking it out of my bag.

These are definitely superfluous molds. If you're happy with the PD's, TB's, and Rivers, you should probably drop these to develop some consistency.

The P-PD might wear in to overlap with a Beast or River.

Personally, I haven't found much use for a very OS disc in all three categories (driver/mid/putter). I prefer a slow, OS driver since drivers fight wind better anyway. Powering down on them isn't much trouble.

But really, your bag looks pretty solid, it's up to you find the discs you don't really need.

 

[whentherainscome]

Update for 2013!

Vitals:
Years playing/experience: 3yrs casual/very bad, third year of trying to improve. (currently my 6th year)
Right/left-handed/ambidextrous: RH
Throwing Style: RHBH, utility: FH, OH, short rollers. I have more snap than power. <-still true
Golf Distance (avg/max*) for putter/mid/driver: Pure: 230/270'; Buzzz: 260/310'; Sidewinder: 340/370'

Optional:
Age: 31
Sex: M
Injuries/handicaps?: nothing that affects my throw
Other sport proficiencies?: If I'm on my third Two Hearted, I am a monster at a shuffleboard table! <--still true!
What do you like/dislike about your current bag?: Swapped a few things around since last year, greatly improved my use of putters and have much better nose angle control on my drivers. Still working on FH and various utility shots.
Specific areas of desired feedback: Areas of overlap, discs that might fit certain roles better.
Immediate and long-term goals: I've gained no distance in the last year, in fact I may have lost some. I have much better release angle control and upshot accuracy and my scores reflect this. I would like to pick up some distance this year. I find, though, that I'm matching a lot of guys' Nuke/Boss distance with my Sidewinders. I'm curious to see how my bump up to MA2 treats me this year.

Here's where I'm at:

Bag: FADE Tourney.

Drivers (weight/plastic/model/(condition)/use):
??? Champ Sidewinder - Max D in calm weather. Surprisingly stable, if I get a good pull I can lock it into a tiny turnover for really long shots that still finish left of the line.
161g Star Sidewinder - tailwind bombs, turnover drives, can shape great lines and fades reliably with some height.

173 Opto Sparkle Saint - a little domey, straight with some fade. Can take mild winds.
164g Opto Saint - Very straight drives with some fade, holds hyzers well.
173 GL Saint - The driver I use most at my home course. Slight hyzerflip with a minimal fade. "Longer TL"

The Saints overlap quite a bit with the stable Sidewinder, Rivers and Teebirds, but have a different personality from each of them, and are longer than the TB/River. I like having something that I can put out farther than a Teebird and rely on in breezy conditions.

167 Champ Firebird - not a flat top. This is my strong headwind disc.
175 Champ Firebird - flat top. I can't throw this for crap FH or BH, but for thumbers/FH Rollers and the occasional spike hyzer it's perfect. The most o/s disc I've ever thrown.

Fairways:
168 Rt.66 Star TB - 280-320' is my general TB range. I use them in windy conditions and for low ceiling situations. This is my medium-overstable 'bird.
166 Champ TB - See above. Trying to beat the star more to differentiate the two. <--- still packing this guy, it's now my straightest Teebird, and I use it for tunnel shots that can finish left.
175 Champ "Totem" TB - My most overstable Teebird. Very reliable in wind.

173 GL River - This and my GL Saint are my most used discs in average conditions. I tend to rely on these heavily near the end of the second round of tournaments. Good for hyzerflips and tons of glide. Will hold hyzers like a dream with a clean release.
168 GL River - A tad flippier, turnover shots. <--now a lot flippier! Great turnover disc!

Mids:
176 Star Stingray - I used the Fuses all summer and into the fall, but they lost their utility in my bag as I became more proficient with my Opto Pure. I've reunited with my old Star Stingray, and we couldn't be happier. Great turnover mid, or hyzer flip for zero-fade precision approach shots.
177+ Ti Buzzz - a little flip off my snap but then locks into its line.
177 Z Buzzz - straight with some fade. <--an obvious staple that's still in my bag.
176 GL Pain - overstable mid with glide. Flex shots/wind.
178 ESP FLX Drone - Utility. Wind, skip, severe flex shots FH and BH, short rollers.

Putters:
174 EZE Pure - Putter. Switched to pures late last summer, and they've improved my putting immensely. My last Putt 360 session had me at 50% from 30'. I'm not that good on the course, but it's good to know it's possible!
176 Opto Pure - Nearly all approaches and short drives.
170 Pro Rhyno - Overstable approach/driving putter, headwind putter <-- it's been a while since this guy was overstable. I can turn it over on a drive, mostly I use it for finesse FH and still for headwind putts, it's lack of glide helps greatly.

Other putters:
175 Zero Sinus - very soft and kind of overstable. a possible replacement for my Rhyno since it's OOP. Definitely shares the lack of glide!

174 Magic - Picked this up a couple days ago. I don't see my Opto Pure getting flippy any time soon, so I'm hoping this can be a turnover putter for drives and long approaches. Its noticeably slower with more glide and I was digging it off the tee during my first round with it.


My thoughts: The couple putters are 'testers', I think the real reduction could come with dropping the o/s mids and working on my hyzers with buzzzes in the wind, or just throwing FBs if the wind is too much for a Buzzz. I can't get anything to zig-zag on a soft approach flex shot quite like the Drone though.. very useful in the woods.

 

[Crazy Runner Guy]

173 GL River - This and my GL Saint are my most used discs in average conditions. I tend to rely on these heavily near the end of the second round of tournaments...

The quoted sentences lead me to believe a few things. First, the GL Saint/River discussed above are your most-trusted, go-to discs in your bag. Second, as you play in a two-day tournament, you're getting worn down, tired, running a calorie deficit, etc. and that is affecting your disc/shot/etc. selection. The first is a great thing to have, the second not so much. Keep playing, work on some conditioning and make sure to eat/drink during a tournament to keep your energy up. One of the first thinks that goes when I start to bonk (and I run really long foot races) is my decision making, and it sounds like it may be affecting you too to smaller degree.

As for your Pro Rhyno, it's obviously at or getting toward the end of its useful life. You can look for something else to replace it as a brick of a putter and/or overstable driving putter or get another Rhyno. There are a lot of options out there right now Rhyno-wise. Pro Rhynos are ~$20-30 at the marketplace, and an exact replacement should be easier for you b/c you're not going for max weight. The current blend of DX is a little stiff in Rhynos, and R-Pro is probably a little too floppy. Champs are good and will hold their stability forever, and the Innova Pro Shop just released a stiff Pro Rhyno for 13.99 a piece (but you need to suck down the $6 shipping unless you go for broke and pony up for a $75 subtotal worth of discs). Haven't touched a Star Rhyno, so can't comment on that. The deal with Rhynos is that nothing feels like them. Combine the Thumbtrac with the shallow/short profile and nothing else feels like it.

Also, Comets in the sig but not in the bag/post? What gives?

 

[whentherainscome]

Great reply! I'll tackle the disc stuff first:

Okay, why there's no Comet is because there's this blister in the first joint of my index finger that developed a few months ago, I've had to stop throwing mids during my winter rounds because it just re-aggravates it every time. Hence, when I grabbed my bag last night and updated this post, there was no Comet in it. The big bead on that thing scrapes right over that spot and it smarts! It's snowy and cold now, so I'm hoping in a few weeks of playing only one or two rounds on the weekends and staying away from my mids (or driving putters), it'll heal up.

The price tag on those Rhynos is why I'm staying away. My Pro is "Pro-Line" soft (softer even than my buddy's Pro Line), so while it doesn't fade, it does stick to the ground very well, and it doesn't bounce far off the cage or trees and rolls less than most discs. It's more my "saftey first" putter. And you're right, with the thumb groove and the shallow feel (much like my Pures), and especially the unique texture of the old Pro plastic, it's hard to replace. The Sinus is shallow and very grippy, so I think it might work out. If not, I could see hitting up the MP for a new softie, definitely.

And now the non-disc issues:
You've nailed my round 2 issues. In the morning round I'm psyched, I'm confident in my shot selection and disc selection and I've gotten over the Tourney Jitters I used to get when I started playing competitions (Spring 2012). Even if I don't get much time to warm up, I know I can stable down and get some decent shots with my flippy River or Sidewinder until I'm loose. I got quad straps last summer and I'm making good habits about not just slinging 'em on one shoulder, I got the standard camp stool and I'll try to conserve my energy when I can.

It's after I break for lunch and I get back for the second round that my mind is hazy and I make a lot of poor upshot decisions, or driving decisions if conditions are different from the first round. I drink water, but I usually don't eat during play. I try to have a modest lunch (some sort of sandwich usually) so I don't feel heavy or get sleepy. I really don't know what to eat to fuel my brain for the second round. I can deal with my body being tired, but there's not much I can do when my brain gets tired and frustration starts to get the best of me.

In the majority of my MA3 tourneys in the summer and fall I would be on the bottom of the lead card but slip a couple places in the second round, and I never have a better score in round 2. I did win my last tournament in 2012, after a 3-way playoff for first where one of the guys and I went head-to-head for 7 holes. There was some adrenaline powering my focus there, as I hit 3 or 4 25' putts, and somehow got a nice 330' drive with my River (and another long putt) for the deuce that sealed it. A lot of my internal monologue was just that sort of meta-commentary, wondering how long I could go before I broke my focus.

That's probably enough rambling. Any advice on what and when to eat would be great. My normal diet is pretty pescetarian, but not strictly healthy. I don't drink pop/coke/soda, but I will crutch on a orange Monster for some dirty/quick energy.

 

[whentherainscome]

Taking a long look at my bag, not just in theory, but in what I actually throw on the course. I pulled my Teebirds and Firebirds out. I haven't thrown the OLF's much, but I have a good idea of what I can expect - something between a TB and FB in stability with more distance potential than both. Maybe a little less HSS, but that should help me air them out more. I'm slightly worried about the occasional tunnel shot where I'd go Teebird just to hit a gap, but I think my Opto Saints will do this well, and not end as far left.

I'm going to try this for the next couple weeks - got two tournaments to play in that time, so I'll really get to see how it works out.

Other changes: The Sinus has ousted the Pro Rhyno. I hit some nice 20/25' putts in a stiff headwind yesterday, and had a couple that were just a tick low. The lack of glide is just perfect for those shots.

The SSS Magic is in as well, it's SLOW. Very different from my Pures on drives, I can put it up a little higher and it'll work its way straight forward and down, maybe slightly right. Also working for tailwind upshots/putts. We'll see how I like it after it meets some trees (I'll probably like it better).

As of today my sig reads:
Pure, Sinus, SSS Magic | Drone, Buzzz, Stingray | River, SOLF, Saint, Sidewinder

 

[lowracks]

Nothing fast and overstable? What do you throw into a 20 mph headwind when you need something to hyzer on a 300+ shot?

 

[whentherainscome]

Firebird. I might not carry one all the time, but I will pack one if it's that windy.

I used to use a Teerex and/or a Halo, but I couldn't throw them for **** w/o a strong headwind. Both of those got traded/sold.

 

[Scouser17]

Other changes: The Sinus has ousted the Pro Rhyno. I hit some nice 20/25' putts in a stiff headwind yesterday, and had a couple that were just a tick low. The lack of glide is just perfect for those shots.

I love my sinus also, I used to throw rhynos too. I found the sinus to be more stable and i love how flat the top is as well as the tri-grip pads on the disc! If you have any more fuses your hiding feel free to trade them my way

 

[whentherainscome]

I have discovered flat(ish) C-FDs. They aren't as fast as Teebirds, but they're every bit as stable or a touch more and much more comfortable for me. I've been sad about not using my S-FDs because I really like them, very neutral and carve different lines than Rivers, but not so different that I'd carry both. Now I'm glad no one bought my FDs from me, I can pair a CFD and SFD with a couple flippy Rivers and I'm really digging it. Teebirds are out for now. The SOLFs are very overstable for me. It might just be a winter thing, but I was getting much better distance with the CFD in a headwind, and it didn't seem bothered by it at all.

I threw on Friday (Grand Woods) and the Cracked Plastic open at Cold Brook with the following bag:
Pure, Sinus, SSS Magic | Drone, Pain (it was windy), Buzzz, Stingray | Sidewinder, Saint, River, FD, Firebird. :thmbup:

 

[5QU166Y]

Since you seem to like the FD so much, have you ever considered testing a D-Line FD? I've never thrown an FD personally, but a D-line might beat into a nice understable flyer.

 

[whentherainscome]

I've never seen them for sale this side of the pond, plus I have no complaints with my River(s). I have a pretty flippy one that I use a lot and hasn't lost any more stability in a long time, and I have a bunch more that are still pretty stable or new.

 

[whentherainscome]

Thanks to the Viking thread that was in the General Discussion longer than it should've been before getting moved to Equipment and sinking like a stone, I packed my Champ Viking for the last few rounds. It very much overlaps with the Saints, but I'm going to keep it around for a while. I also got some new CFDs for backups, and one is white/clear and domey. I want to bag it, but: snow.

Current driver breakdown is:
Champ Firebird
C-FD
S-FD
RGL River - 174g, untested. I'm looking forward to seeing how this guy flies.
GL River
Opto Saint
GL Saint
Champ Viking
Champ SW
Star SW

I used to carry upwards of 14-15 drivers at once, so I feel good about getting it down to 10 and having more room for driving/upshot putters. I'm rocking the SSS Magic and now a Soft Magic too, since the SSS+trees=warping. The Opto Pure and Sinus are still around and the Med. Wizard in my trade pile has been making eyes at me lately. I might pack it next time I go out.

 

[whentherainscome]

I added a Tursas in the bag on a trial basis. It just came in on Tuesday, and I'm really digging it. 172g TP, white - throwing it in the snow I see it's a bit offwhite, pearl color. Beautiful disc.

So far it's been extremely controllable, not as easy to turn as I thought it would be. It sits beautifully between Buzzz and Stingray. I can't wait to throw it more! The snow's all going to melt this weekend and I'll be able to put some mustard on it w/o worrying to much about losing it.

 

[whentherainscome]

After boinking off the cage on hole 18 at MSU DGC, and it being extremely useful at Kensington Metropark (where most all baskets are out... and to the right) the Tursas is in the bag. It fits right where I thought it would, between Buzzz and Stingray. It powers down very well and glides like a dream. I don't have to be jealous of guys packing beat up DX Rocs anymore!

After Saturday dubs and my round at Kensington, I'm really happy with my bag! I used every disc in it and never thought "If I only had a disc that would _______."

I gave SOLF's a trial run in the breeze at MSU (wide open course), and they're nice. Side-by-side with FD's.. different flight paths but I was getting the exact same distance. Happened like five times. I can feel the disc pivot way way better with the smaller rim of the FDs, so I'm getting my hit timing right, and some good snap on them but the OLFs I can tell is just an arm throw, with no real snap. Something to work on, for sure. I'd love to be able to get more energy in to wider rimmed discs.

 

[whentherainscome]

I gave DD Escapes a second trial today. I was hoping they would be beefier than my Saints, but it seems like they overlap a bit, my opto Saints being more stable. The Escape is the faster disc, with a rim width equal to a Beast, which is speed 10 by Innova's standard.

There was a 10-15mph steady wind on the course today, and the Escape could not stand up to it. It cost me a 2 OB strokes, maybe 4-5 strokes overall (had I stayed inbounds). I gave it some good hyzer and it flipped and held to the right all the way to the ground. The 2nd OB stroke was in the center of a pond and I say good riddance! I was throwing clean with everything else that round, so I'm going to fault the disc.

I have played four very different courses over the last two weeks in varying winds and I've thrown ONE shot with my FLX Drone and it was a 50' FH roller. So I took it out and made room for a couple more drivers.

It's been a while since I've done the whole list, and things have changed a lot, so here goes:

Drivers:
Sidewinders - 166g Star, 175g Champ - Star is flippy and great for uphill, tailwind. Champ is stable and is my max D in calm conditions.
Saints - 173g GL, 164g Opto - Workhorse distance driver. Gl for hyzerflips/line shaping, Opto for hyzers and mild winds.
OLF - 167g SOLF, 169g QOLF. I made room for these today. The Escapes didn't cut it and I need something "fast," comfortable and reliable in headwind situations. I'm feeling a big gap between my Saints and Firebird, so I'm going to dive right in with these.
Firebirds - 167g Champ with some dome, 175g stiff flat top. I don't use these at my home course, there isn't a hole that calls for it. I have been using them a ton out of town, mostly the lighter one, but with the Drone out I added the flat top for utility shots.

Fairways
Gl Rivers (2), SFD, CFD

Mids
Star Stingray, 176g
TP Tursas, 172g - I am still being too gentle with this disc, I would do well to spend some time with it in a field.
Buzzzes - 177+ Ti, 177+ 10y Z. I flipped the Ti Buzzz up flat in a tailwind today, but the ten-year Buzzz has plenty of stability.

Putters
I putt with 173-174g EZE Pures. I have a Zero Hard Pure coming whenever Community Discs is back from vacation.
Magics - 173g SSS, 175g Soft. SSS for approaches, uphill putts, tailwind putts, Soft for longer approaches, straight/anhyzer drives and wooded shots.
Yeti - FH approaches, stable drives.
Sinus - headwind approaches, putts. The soft zero is too tacky for me to drive with it, I have a Hard Zero Sinus on order too. I often find myself coming up short with this disc, I need to remember it has no glide to rely on and just throw it harder.

 

[BrotherDave]

Looks pretty good. Tried narrowing down the putter molds any? I think the SW and Rivers would overlap a little for me, at least the GLs and the Star SW.

 

[whentherainscome]

I noticed as I was typing this up: lots of putters. I was using an Opto Pure in place of the Yeti, but I've been having trouble getting a good grip on it in the lingering cool, dry weather so I put the Yeti back in. I can FH approach with the Yeti like a dream, even if it's not as HSS on BH drives. I've also been debating putting with Magics, but enough things are in flux and tournaments are ramping up and Idk if there's ever a good time to try switching putters, ya know? I'll be using them more outside the circle.

As for the River/SWs, the short of it is that the SWs go a lot farther. The Star powers down pretty well, but the Champ is surprisingly stable (since cleaning up my OAT, that is) and I don't turn it til I'm getting 340'+ of power on it. Most people think 9 speed as "Control Driver" or even "Fairway Driver" but for me they're "Distance Driver." They may actually over lap, but I have them sanctioned into specific roles, where Rivers might get used out to 280 avg/330 max, the SW's pick up after that.

 

[whentherainscome]

I did some more trading and got this FLAT SOLF. It's now my go-to driver. It does everything I wanted my Opto Saint to do without being touchy. I can lean into it and get a long straight flight and then a healthy late fade, handles crosswinds like a champ and a good bit of headwind too. So, for now, Saints are out. I should be able to shape the longer turn-and-fade lines of the GL Saint with Sidewinders. Driver molds reduced by one!

The Super Stingray is in. I gave it another shot on a whim. It has a the turn my Buzzzes don't and the fade my Star Stingray, as well as the Tursas, doesn't have. There are a couple difficult tee shots at Burchfield Park - River's Edge course, where you need a finesse anny that will hold the turn a bit and then fade out for good placement (both are downhill shots) and this has been doing those lines perfectly. I'm not sure if there's still room for the Tursas, but it's still in the bag. /shrug

I'm in a big mess trying out different approach discs. It's going to take some more experimentation to figure out. Magics are great, Pures are great but fast, Sinus is great in wind but hard to release cleanly, Yetis are great but more of do-it-all and less suited for any one slot, Banger GT is super fun and does great hyzers and I really miss my old floppy Pro Rhyno for hit-and-stick shots as well as headwind putts, even if all its overstability is long gone.

B-Tier tournament on Saturday, lots of water hazards. I will feel like a winner if I leave with all the discs I bring. I got my fingers crossed for little to no wind.

 

[whentherainscome]

It was a very very windy, cool day with some snow. I manged to get 3rd in MA3. It was at Victory Park.

I stable'd up for the wind, I was sure to bring a Sinus and Drone, and made room for 3 OLFs as well as my Saints in case things got bad and I just needed something familiar. I threw a lot of my tiny-dome OLF and QOLF into the wind, got some turn and good fade. I deflashed the 1.2 QOLF and it's definitely not like my Firebird anymore, but still is beefy. I used the Firebird a lot too, including for a 5' parkjob that took CTP and held it for both rounds.

I also only went in the water (6 hole stretch of water hazards!) once, on a long anny with a domey C-FD. I bricked off the brick bank (counts as IB!). I've never been so happy to lose a disc!

I was very happy with my driver setup, and my mid setup. Putters are a little shaky still. I'm going to attempt for the next 2 weeks to putt with Magics. I love them for upshots, and it cuts down on molds. I'll be doing Magic, Banger, Sinus.

Oh, and I found two S-OF marked SOLFs in the bins! One 1.1 dead flat, and a 1.2 tiny dome. It's good to have backups!