Green Mountain Championships

[biscoe]

I'm not sure it's the right way to go because it's less fun for the players and will reduce the amount of close matches, especially in single rounds. Figuring out how to better challenge top players in the putting area is probably a better way to increase the scoring averages with a tougher challenge than direct penalties. That should be the new frontier for experimentation.

The bolded is an assumption on your part. As you well know there are course aspects which players enjoy and/or which are more entertaining for watchers which do not offer maximum granularity. The tradeoff between the two is different on every individual hole.

 

[Cgkdisc]

While it's true people have different perceptions of what's fun, it's pretty clear that taking OB penalties is NOT fun and I'll extend that to every player except the tin cup masochists. Without even polling players, we know they want to get their discs back if lost and hate to lose them in unretrievable water. How many hours have been spent trying to determine an OB call right on the line or players whining that touching the grass blade should be inbounds? Perhaps the concept of OB challenges has some appeal to some, but the reality of actually getting a penalty "you don't deserve", especially when the shot is blind (another less fun thing), is rarely fun, unless of course you're tanking to get what you think is a better draw in the next round.

 

[biscoe]

While it's true people have different perceptions of what's fun, it's pretty clear that taking OB penalties is NOT fun and I'll extend that to every player except the tin cup masochists.

Throwing shots with an element of risk is fun. They also serve to increase drama and competitive tension.

Please don't take this as an endorsement of tons of fake OB- miles of rope on an otherwise boring piece of land in the name of difficulty is an affront to the beauty of the game.

Natural OB used judiciously on the other hand is neither good nor bad in and of itself- just another tool in the designer's pocket should he choose to use it.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Natural OB used judiciously on the other hand is neither good nor bad in and of itself- just another tool in the designer's pocket should he choose to use it.

Judiciously would mean that fewer than say 1 in 20 players of the skill level where it comes into play actually get a penalty. Water is the main hazard type in ball golf where it's common to take a penalty versus just hit out of it. But even it isn't really a penalty. In ball golf you only get a penalty from a design element normally in play when you have to or choose to move your ball/lie, which is usually, but not always the case when landing in water.

BTW, I love different types of water on courses and have designed many holes with parallel water and carries along with other OB areas that need to be carried or avoided. But I'm looking into how they could be handled with somewhat tweaked rules, primarily by providing different "penalty" options. This is one thing we're discussing in the Game Development Team. We've had several interesting tests so far but are not ready to share the results widely yet. The general idea is to develop better challenge formats versus applying direct penalties where possible.

 

[DiscLoser1]

While it's true people have different perceptions of what's fun, it's pretty clear that taking OB penalties is NOT fun and I'll extend that to every player except the tin cup masochists. Without even polling players, we know they want to get their discs back if lost and hate to lose them in unretrievable water. How many hours have been spent trying to determine an OB call right on the line or players whining that touching the grass blade should be inbounds? Perhaps the concept of OB challenges has some appeal to some, but the reality of actually getting a penalty "you don't deserve", especially when the shot is blind (another less fun thing), is rarely fun, unless of course you're tanking to get what you think is a better draw in the next round.

So the Pros are whiners? Lulz. Are you sure you're not talking about Ams here? I've seen plenty of Pros have discussions over OB trying to get the call right, the only semi-heated discussions were maybe when McBeth and Wysocki were involved...

On a mostly wide open course like Fox Run, I didn't see the OB as a detriment to the woods. I guess we missed out on some FH rollers out of the woods.

You and Houck and by extension the PDGA seem to have decided that OB is a no-no, but unless it's a true wooded course, I don't see the harm. Ledgestone's insistence on OB on the wooded courses I disagree with.

 

[BrotherDave]

As a spectator, artificial OB seems too much like watching somebody play a golf simulator or video game. Some of this stuff y'all are discussing sounds like the makings of a disc golf LARP game. "Oh, I landed in the hazard! I have to roll the Wheel of Lies and see which Drop Zone I have to throw from!"

 

[Steve West]

As a spectator, artificial OB seems too much like watching somebody play a golf simulator or video game. Some of this stuff y'all are discussing sounds like the makings of a disc golf LARP game. "Oh, I landed in the hazard! I have to roll the Wheel of Lies and see which Drop Zone I have to throw from!"

Careful. That probably sounds like a good idea to someone.

 

[biscoe]

Judiciously would mean that fewer than say 1 in 20 players of the skill level where it comes into play actually get a penalty.

How do you arrive at 5%? (Seems low to me)

 

[DavidSauls]

I obviously have a different sense of "fun" than some. It's even fun to take that penalty stroke, when I was gambling with the O.B. instead of playing it safe.

I like as much variety in a course as possible---including and especially hazards from trees, woods, elevation.....and O.B.

 

[DavidSauls]

As a spectator, artificial OB seems too much like watching somebody play a golf simulator or video game. Some of this stuff y'all are discussing sounds like the makings of a disc golf LARP game. "Oh, I landed in the hazard! I have to roll the Wheel of Lies and see which Drop Zone I have to throw from!"

What above existing features as O.B.---creeks, roads, sidewalks, ponds---and a course designed to bring that O.B. into play?

 

[BrotherDave]

What above existing features as O.B.---creeks, roads, sidewalks, ponds---and a course designed to bring that O.B. into play?

Can you rephrase? Too much beer this evening to decipher.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Careful. That probably sounds like a good idea to someone.

Hmm...

 

[teemkey]

Pot bunkers could be added to a fairway at a pretty low cost. Basically a big hole deep enough that a player could not see over the edge, but one the player can easily get into and out of: poor footing, obscured line, difficult recovery shot.

 

[DavidSauls]

What above existing features as O.B.---creeks, roads, sidewalks, ponds---and a course designed to bring that O.B. into play?

Can you rephrase? Too much beer this evening to decipher.

I'll have to, since I can't delete, defend, or explain it.

It was supposed to say, "What about existing features used as O.B......"

 

[brutalbrutus]

Pot bunkers could be added to a fairway at a pretty low cost. Basically a big hole deep enough that a player could not see over the edge, but one the player can easily get into and out of: poor footing, obscured line, difficult recovery shot.

Hedgerows would probably accomplish that without the need to dig holes in the ground that could turn into mini ponds...

 

[Steve West]

Hedgerows would probably accomplish that without the need to dig holes in the ground that could turn into mini ponds...

...and maxi trash bins.

 

[Steve West]

Hmm...

You're thinking of a specially marked disc with various consequences around the rim, with the player to play the one that is at the front of the disc on the line of play after the player throws it at least 4 meters, aren't you?

Skill-based throw. Kind of.

 

[Cgkdisc]

You're thinking of a specially marked disc with various consequences around the rim, with the player to play the one that is at the front of the disc on the line of play after the player throws it at least 4 meters, aren't you?

Skill-based throw. Kind of.

No, something more conventional - Super Class disc thrown forehand upside down.

 

[brutalbrutus]

360 putter roller better be included...

 

[Steve West]

No, something more conventional - Super Class disc thrown forehand upside down.

All the blood goes to my head when I throw upside down.