How impressive is (present-day) Ken Climo?

[dorseymatt]

Ken Climo will be turning 48 years old in a couple weeks. After two rounds at the Memorial, he's shooting -17, which would be good for 12th place in the Open division. His PDGA rating is 1023.

Let me just mention this again: Ken Climo is about to turn 48 years old.

There has been some debate about how good Climo truly was in his prime. Yes, he was insanely dominant, but how good was his competition? Surely, McBeth is better than Climo ever was... right?

Well, I don't know. Will Paul McBeth have a rating over 1020 20 (!) years from now?

I've recently hit my mid-30s. Three years ago, I don't think I could appreciate the physical decline that happens to our bodies as we age. I figured, I work out all the time, stay in good shape -- I'm always going to be getting more and more fit, even if I lose a little speed.

Well, the decline is significant once you pass your physical prime. I see this now. And, again, Climo is, charitably, 15 years PAST his prime, PAST the point where he likely was already starting to experience physical deterioration. And, yet, he is still performing at a world class level, in a sport that is absolutely BRUTAL (over time) to the joints. This is incredible.

Given current disc technology and better competitors to push him to excel, how good would Ken Climo have been in his prime? Impossible to say. But -- damn. What the guy is doing NOW should make you wonder. And at the very least, his current performance should suggest he'd have been significantly better than he is now.

 

[VictorB]

A big part of Climo's game is part that doesn't deteriorate - accuracy and consistency. Sure, we lose strength and distance as we get older (I'm experiencing this as well, I'm 34) but when your game doesn't rely on distance, but fairways/greens in regulation and putting at a high percentage, those things can definitely be kept up with as you get older. I think you'll see more of a fall off for the younger guys that throw hard and throw 500' all the time when their bodies start to age.

To answer your original question though: It's incredibly impressive that his skills haven't diminished much at all in 20 years. I was just watching the 2001 USDGC, and he pretty much plays the same game now as he did then. It all looks the same, he just looks a few years older.

 

[grodney]

He's nearly as impressive as Elaine King.

 

[Jay Dub]

I'd like to see Paul play with nothing more than a Roc and Cobra for driving. Those were Climo's main throwers early in his career. I personally witnessed him throw a Cobra on a 560ft hole and reach the basket. It is a downhill shot (#15 at Mt Airy).

The competition back then was not lacking for sure. Steve Wisecup was very athletic and played like a machine. Greenwell had/has every shot there is in his arsenal as if he practiced each of them an hour a day. Stokely had mad distance and couldn't keep up with Climo.

It's impossible to know for sure and I would love to see a season with a younger Climo against the current McBeth.

 

[Stardoggy]

 

[wjgray2]

Dad Golf

You just have to embrace the concept of Dad Golf. You might not be able to throw it as far as the young guns, but you make up for it with smart play, consistency, and accuracy. Just like the old farts on the ball golf courses who still get out every weekend and shoot well.

 

[dorseymatt]

A big part of Climo's game is part that doesn't deteriorate - accuracy and consistency. Sure, we lose strength and distance as we get older (I'm experiencing this as well, I'm 34) but when your game doesn't rely on distance, but fairways/greens in regulation and putting at a high percentage, those things can definitely be kept up with as you get older. I think you'll see more of a fall off for the younger guys that throw hard and throw 500' all the time when their bodies start to age.

To answer your original question though: It's incredibly impressive that his skills haven't diminished much at all in 20 years. I was just watching the 2001 USDGC, and he pretty much plays the same game now as he did then. It all looks the same, he just looks a few years older.

I think it's interesting to consider what his power game could have been 20 to 25 years ago, when hew was 23-28. What if he had had Star Destroyers back then? Doesn't he still throw over 400 feet to this day? I don't think it's at all clear that he wouldn't have been throwing 500-foot hyzers back then like the big arms of today. Even when we think about how Climo performed in 2001, that's as a 33-year-old, at the end of his physical prime, just as disc tech was starting to improve. Pretty nuts.

 

[bhadella]

Dave Dunipace said it best in his AMA. Climo is the best driver ever (and still is tremendous). And McBeth is the best putter ever. And putting wins over driving. Look at the way Climo and Barry putt. Nose downish, barely squeaking over the cage. Those old crappy baskets formed their styles. Now that baskets catch better, the style used by current pros (especially McBeth) hits higher and allows the chains to pull them in. The young guys almost never miss low (unlike Climo and Barry).

 

[The Last DJ]

In Dave's recent AMA video, the interviewer asks who would win in a contest between Paul and Ken if both athletes were in their prime. The quick response was Paul...Dave explains that there is no one in the sport that can putt like McBeast. On the other hand, he did qualify a bit and made the comment that The Champ has had more consistent driving for a much longer time frame. I'm extremely impressed with folks like Kenny who could can hang with guys in their early/mid 20's - that's absolutely incredible!

 

[brian j]

I got a lot of respect for his game but little for his character. See last year's Worlds for an example.

 

[dorseymatt]

Interesting points. I wonder if Ken would've developed a putting style like McBeth's had he come up around this time.

 

[SonicGuy]

Dave Dunipace said it best in his AMA. Climo is the best driver ever (and still is tremendous). And McBeth is the best putter ever. And putting wins over driving. Look at the way Climo and Barry putt. Nose downish, barely squeaking over the cage. Those old crappy baskets formed their styles. Now that baskets catch better, the style used by current pros (especially McBeth) hits higher and allows the chains to pull them in. The young guys almost never miss low (unlike Climo and Barry).

Bingo. Basket design limited Climo's game as much as shorter hole length enabled it.

I do not agree that McBeth is the best putter ever. I will say he may be the most clutch putter ever, but I don't know how I would quantify that.

For my money prime Cam Todd is a putting world beater. Add Rico and Yeti as folks I put ahead of McBeth. Maybe I am just being a hater opcorn:

 

[mark996]

I got a lot of respect for his game but little for his character. See last year's Worlds for an example.

Yeah, sucks when people call other MPO players on foot faults, then sucks even more when people online using a video with piss poor depth perception to quantify their argument. Everyone hangs their hat on that one 30 second clip and says KC is a dick.

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

I had a conversation with Stokely about this and his answer was unequivocal: the level of play that Ken had to compete against was nowhere near what it is today. He said he's heard that straight from Ken as well. They know, they were there.

Yes, Ken played high level - high pressure golf and won consistently and nobody should dream of taking anything away from the champ and he's competing VERY well at 48 (which BTW ain't that old you young whipper-snappers)... but I'd probably argue that Barry has been playing at a consistently higher level in the last couple years.

 

[mark996]

Seems in the last few years, I'd agree with HUB. Hell even Schwebby has turned it up quite a bit.

 

[AndyJB]

Just one quick point to the OP: disc golf is not "BRUTAL to the joints" as long as you take care of yourself. How much Kenny was focusing on long term health back in his youth is unclear, but he has always had a very smooth style. He has preached many times about the importance of warming up (again, dont know if he felt the same way many years ago) as well.

There are a lot of am players (and pros) who really put some muscle into their throws...it doesnt look very smooth and yeah, thats going to deatroy their joints later on. Power forehands too. Look at someone like Big Jerm...his forehand is so smooth it doesnt even look like he's putting in any effort. He'll be throwing those bomber forehands for decades...compare that to someone like, say Ricky Wysocki, who isnt exactly "herky jerky" but just isnt as smooth...

So all those guys back in the day were smooth like butter which no doubt has helped their longevity.

Genetics cant be discounted, either. They are a very powerful factor when you are talking about athletic performence.

 

[araytx]

Climo's 12th open Worlds title was in 2006, 10 years ago. Let's see how many others win the World championship at or close to age 38.

As said with other sports, you truly cannot compare eras -- because there's always something different about rules, training, commitment of players, finances, etc.

Montana, Elway, and Marino played in an era where running backs and defense dominated the sport -- and when the defenses could actually muscle receivers and hit the qb. Manning and Brady play in quarterback- designed league with rules to make it more passing-friendly. Unitas played without good receivers, and Otto Graham played both ways! How can you ever say who was the best qb ever?

Same with the Babe Ruth-Ted Williams-Mickey Mantle-Willie Mays-Hank Aaron-Ken Griffey-Barry Bonds argument. The "games" were different, even though playing the same sport.


Ken is an amazing disc golfer and we can debate the best of all time, but he is clearly the most dominant ever as it stands today. To answer the OP -- VERY, VERY impresive.

 

[CaptainAnhyzer]

Aside from all the years of awesomeness that is, Ken Climo, there this little nugget to let you know he's human.

 

[THUGNIFICENT763]

Climo is to disc golf what Gretzky was to hockey. With the advances in technology, one would have to be a fool to presume Gretzky wouldn't have killed it even harder if he played in today's era of space-age composites and polymers, with most of the physical elements that rewarded goonery removed from the game. Games change. Great players do not.

 

[lyleoross]

You just have to embrace the concept of Dad Golf. You might not be able to throw it as far as the young guns, but you make up for it with smart play, consistency, and accuracy. Just like the old farts on the ball golf courses who still get out every weekend and shoot well.

What made Ken impressive is that he always played like Dad. Funny enough, it is clear that he throws hissy fits and acts out in immature ways, but that doesn't seem to impact his focus or take him away from his game. In many ways, that is what now makes Paul great. He plays like Dad, calm, focused, has a job to do and does it.