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How to Build a Bag
- Thread starter garublador
- Start date
Alexplz
Double Eagle Member
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2013
- Messages
- 1,923
This was months ago so I'm sure you got your answer another way but here's my description:
Simply put, OAT is the technical term for "wobble" or "flutter." A degree of OAT will cause the disc to fly less stable than it would when released with clean form. I know that when I started to throw forehand I threw with all power and tons of OAT - this would cause stable discs to flip like a paper plate and turn into rollers.
Another question in relation to the bag rubric - would a GL river fit the control driver category for someone with 300' or so worth of power? I undersand the value of base plastic and have played extensively with it in the past, but was thinking about putting together a fundamentals bag moving forward.
Brodysseus
* Ace Member *
Yeah that should work. I'm not very familiar with Rivers, but if memory serves me there are some that have the same turn but some extra fade (Opto? GL?... Not sure) and I'd recommend one of those. I think Garu was trying to get people to work with neutral control drivers (close to equal turn and fade) as opposed to something truly understable.
I'm actually putting a four disc Nutsac bag together based of Garu's philosophy. I recently went back to square one and I'm rebuilding my throw; changed to the traditional power grip from a 2 finger, keeping my offhand off the disc (keeping it on was preventing me from turning away from the target enough and limiting my reach back), etc. I've been on a strict diet of fieldwork and putting practice but I just can't stay away from the courses any longer, so I figured I'd build a Garu bag.
Here's what it looks like:
175g Organic Wizard
175g Big Z Comet (probably gonna pick up an X, my fiancée "stole" my last 2)
170g M Polaris LS
175g Brinster Teebird
I'm actually putting a four disc Nutsac bag together based of Garu's philosophy. I recently went back to square one and I'm rebuilding my throw; changed to the traditional power grip from a 2 finger, keeping my offhand off the disc (keeping it on was preventing me from turning away from the target enough and limiting my reach back), etc. I've been on a strict diet of fieldwork and putting practice but I just can't stay away from the courses any longer, so I figured I'd build a Garu bag.
Here's what it looks like:
175g Organic Wizard
175g Big Z Comet (probably gonna pick up an X, my fiancée "stole" my last 2)
170g M Polaris LS
175g Brinster Teebird
garublador
* Ace Member *
Really, something "workable" (which sounds like what you're describing" is what I think would be idea. What I mean is something that has a predictable, easy to control turn and predictable fade. My understanding is that the River fits this description, but I've never thrown one.
Rivers will fit the bill if you're truly maxing out at 300'. If you start pushing much past that, they quickly move to the understable side of things. Or at least, they did for me. At my 350', a Crave is a way more reliable neutral driver than the River.
Wild variance in Rivers seems to be a thing of the past, at least in my experience. All the recently molded ones I've thrown are on consistently on the understable side.
Rivers are fantastic at teaching you how to throw nose down, too. They're the Comet of fairways in that respect. Junk in the wind, though.
Wild variance in Rivers seems to be a thing of the past, at least in my experience. All the recently molded ones I've thrown are on consistently on the understable side.
Rivers are fantastic at teaching you how to throw nose down, too. They're the Comet of fairways in that respect. Junk in the wind, though.
I would agree with this. I had a river and then lost it. it was a great disc that i used on a lot of varying shots. once i had it returned it just never went back in my bag so i sold it. I could probably replace a couple discs in my bag with one River, but right now I'm loving where my Leopards are at.
great comparison to the comet. I'll definitely back that statement. when I started out, I had a river (few years ago). when my form was worse than it is now. it was a touchy disc that definitely showed my form was bad, as my form improved, my river got better and better.
AndrewM33
Par Member
I've been following Garu's method for the past month. Here is my bag:
175 Classic Judge
175 DX Roc
168 DX Cheetah
167 Champ Banshee
Does this look ok?
Another question: since the flight characteristics of the Cheetah and the Roc are changing someone, using your philosophy, do I just add a fresh one into the mix?
175 Classic Judge
175 DX Roc
168 DX Cheetah
167 Champ Banshee
Does this look ok?
Another question: since the flight characteristics of the Cheetah and the Roc are changing someone, using your philosophy, do I just add a fresh one into the mix?
Rocs were born to be cycled, very easy to do. Pop a KC Pro Roc in there and you're on your way. If you like the Cheetah you could get a fresh one, for sure. If you feel like the Cheetah didn't stay stable long enough to your liking you can dip your toes into the overstable side a bit more with a Gazelle, Cyclone, Teebird, Eagle etc.
A really simplified option along mold minimalism lines would be to get a DX Banshee and beat it up 'til it's straight. Back in the day before premium plastic, where a lot of this philosophy stems from, most people (particularly strong throwers) would get the most overstable disc on the market (like a Viper) and cycle through those. Banshee works well for this b/c they come readily available in premium plastic so you can keep that really overstable slot filled for a long time with a Champ one.
A Champ Banshee|beat DX Banshee|fresh Cheetah|beat Cheetah driver line-up would cover practically everything and you'd be familiar with the molds already, breeding consistency and letting you focus better on improving.
Only thing with cycling DX Banshees is that they can remain stable for a long time even if they're taking a beating. I had one that was reliably overstable for about a year. They also have zero glide in any state of wear. You can always push the wear process along by scruffing them on pavement, and a worn DX Banshee can be a beautiful thing, but if you don't have a big arm having the Cheetah to complement is really needed. The four disc lineup Bro D outlined at the end of his post is super solid for this reason.
AndrewM33
Par Member
Would I just be better off with the Gazelle instead of the Cheetah? I max at 310 with the Cheetah. I don't really see the benefit of carrying a DX banshee.
The choice between the Gazelle and the Cheetah is a matter of personal preference. The Gazelle should have some more fade than the Cheetah, and in base plastic will probably have a bit longer life span because of this. Either works, and both aren't needed.
There are a few benefits to carrying a Banshee. Garu's point is that learning to play the fade with such a disc is essential to having a solid game, so the sooner you begin to get experience with that kind of shot the better. Even if your other fairway has a healthy fade, the Banshee is going to do different things: it'll be shorter, more rangeable because of less glide, and much more wind resistant. It's almost a tweener midrange/fairway.
For whatever it's worth, when I started out a couple years ago, I also worked a lot off of Garu's template, and I also didn't really get the need for an overstable fairway. But the longer I bagged such a disc the more used it got, and now my Resistor (which plays that role in my bag) is indispensable. If I played a round with four discs, one would be a Resistor. There's something about the rangeability and reliability that makes it an important disc in the bag. And there's nothing safer in the wind.
Just some thoughts; you should do what you want! This conversation is making me consider putting together a DX bag myself.
There are a few benefits to carrying a Banshee. Garu's point is that learning to play the fade with such a disc is essential to having a solid game, so the sooner you begin to get experience with that kind of shot the better. Even if your other fairway has a healthy fade, the Banshee is going to do different things: it'll be shorter, more rangeable because of less glide, and much more wind resistant. It's almost a tweener midrange/fairway.
For whatever it's worth, when I started out a couple years ago, I also worked a lot off of Garu's template, and I also didn't really get the need for an overstable fairway. But the longer I bagged such a disc the more used it got, and now my Resistor (which plays that role in my bag) is indispensable. If I played a round with four discs, one would be a Resistor. There's something about the rangeability and reliability that makes it an important disc in the bag. And there's nothing safer in the wind.
Just some thoughts; you should do what you want! This conversation is making me consider putting together a DX bag myself.
Curtis_Valk
Eagle Member
How did I miss this post. I could totally rock that bag, with my substitution of the mentioned X Comet and of course my putter of choice (SS Omega). I already bag and love the other two discs mentioned. I think I will give this a try.
AndrewM33
Par Member
I agree that I should carry an OS fairway. Someone had suggested I carry a DX Banshee along with my champion Banshee. I was wondering if carrying a Champ banshee along with a fresh DX Gazelle would have my stabilities covered. I love my DX Cheetah. I just feel there's a huge stability gap between my Champ Banshee and my worn DX Cheetah.
Well, you can easily fill that gap with a fresh DX Cheetah and a DX Banshee.
I cycled DX Banshees for my first year or so of playing: as long as you avoid big gouges, they wear in very predictably. Champ Banshee - worn DX Banshee - fresh DX Cheetah - worn DX Cheetah could certainly cover the spectrum, and keep your molds down, helping you with consistency.
Brodysseus
* Ace Member *
I did end up getting an X Comet to stick in that bag. It's been a fun bag to throw. I'm moving back to throwing beat DX Teebirds as my neutral control drivers though, I just prefer them, even though I did like the PLSs and Stalkers I tried for that slot.
So the bag would be:
Wizard
X Comet
DX 'Bird
Brinster 'Bird
Not exactly a Garu bag as the beat Teebird doesn't turn and fade much, but I can lock it on any line I need.
garublador
* Ace Member *
I'd get a new control driver. The Gazelle will be a bit on the overstable side when new, but if you learn to throw much farther it will last longer before getting squirrley. The Cheetah will be easier to control for you now, but will likely get a bit squirrley once beat if you learn to throw them 350' or so.
The DX Banshee would be much better moderately overstable driver than a control driver.
Be careful you aren't trying to get a disc for each stability. You're better off learning to make the discs you have work until you get more comfortable shaping lines. I'm not saying this is happening yet, it's just an easy trap to fall into.
Curtis_Valk
Eagle Member
I gave up on the DX 'bird about six or eight months ago because it kept turning too much at unexpected times. My form has since improved and I bet I could give it another chance. DX 'birds go FAAAAARRRRR!!!!
AndrewM33
Par Member
Garu,
I see your point and I agree about falling into that trap. When you outlined "how to build a bag", did you envision someone carrying more than one of each mold? And if so, when do you put a fresh disc in?
I see your point and I agree about falling into that trap. When you outlined "how to build a bag", did you envision someone carrying more than one of each mold? And if so, when do you put a fresh disc in?
garublador
* Ace Member *
Yes. As long as you're using the additional discs to make hitting lines easier, rather than just relying on them to fly differently on their own it's probably a good idea to start carrying multiples once your initial discs start getting beat. Just setting the beat ones aside and beating in backups isn't a bad idea either.
What's interesting to do is to try to throw the same lines with both the new and the beat disc to see what changes you have to make and how the lines turn out differently.
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