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How To Increase Arm Speed?

One final issue that's perplexing me...is exactly where the hand should be positioned on the disc as it comes across the chest to get that, snap, hinge, thingy happening. You read comments about "coiling the disc", "cocking your wrist", etc, etc, but it sounds like you want a bit of this actually happening. So...can someone perhaps take a picture (over head would be ideal) to show the preferred position of the hand on the disc as it makes it's way across the chest, elbow out, right before (or during?) the "hit"? Thanks again.

I just focus on outer edge, opposite edge. Keep wrist neutral, but not open at all. It can be slightly closed, but you have to let the mass of the disc close your wrist to load it.

If you have too closed of a wrist it likely won't load as much naturally. Too open of a wrist or hand on the front of the disc (lead edge) will prevent loading from happening at all. I think just neutral "firm" but moveable wrist on outer edge is the ideal starting point. Then from trial and error you can strengthen it.

@HUB it's disc selection why you aren't seeing more turn...if I throw a super OS disc really nose down it just plows forward. But something warp speed that I can flip a bit, will flip way more when I really nose down it. Neutral/slightly US fairway drivers will just plow forwards more with their usual HSS. I find it's speed 12+ stuff that gets drastically different HSS when I hit it right with the nose down.
 
I just focus on outer edge, opposite edge. Keep wrist neutral, but not open at all. It can be slightly closed, but you have to let the mass of the disc close your wrist to load it.

If you have too closed of a wrist it likely won't load as much naturally. Too open of a wrist or hand on the front of the disc (lead edge) will prevent loading from happening at all. I think just neutral "firm" but moveable wrist on outer edge is the ideal starting point. Then from trial and error you can strengthen it.

I've attached a picture with numbers from 0-7 (RHBH) with 0 being the least favorable position of the hand due to this would be "pulling" the disc. Unless I'm over thinking this and not getting it, wouldn't 7 be extreme wrist coil and not preferred? Which number do you think would be a good starting point for field work? Thx!
 

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Ken Climo: "In general, the bend in my wrist matches the amount of power needed for the shot. If I only am throwing 50%, then the wrist is 50% cocked etc. If I'm going to throw as hard as I can, then my wrist will be curled to the fullest. Not cocking too much on the shorter shots creates more control. It's progressive all the way down to the putt, where I don't cock my wrist."

hmm...
 
Ha. I love random movie references.

To actually answer the question posed by the OP in this latest post. No, 7 would not be ideal. 7 would create extra drag and would not be the most efficient movement. The acceleration of the wrist would actually be decelerating at the moment of release because of that extra drag. 3.5 or there abouts is more ideal. It still creates the acceleration needed and does create extra drag.
 
Click here for some Nate

Nate's the definition of the "wide rail" that comes to the chest at more of an angle than a straight line, if that makes sense.

Some guys develop a later "outside hand" pull - like below:

http://cl.ly/image/3t1z3X1C1d0E
http://cl.ly/image/182K0B0R202l

^^ He is a 500+ thrower.

So the answer, frustratingly... as always, is it depends - but if you were trying to develop the feel for a loading wrist - I'd say hand at 4 to the right pec. As the wrist loads, for a "heavy feeling second" you'll go to 5 and then unload the wrist with the forearm extension.

Then the hover board is activated.
 
I agree with HUB, but keep in mind I only max at up to 400' (but without X-step).

I believe my hand is at 4 and gets loaded to 5 or so by the weight of the disc just before it flings open for the hit/snap.
 
I've attached a picture with numbers from 0-7 (RHBH) with 0 being the least favorable position of the hand due to this would be "pulling" the disc. Unless I'm over thinking this and not getting it, wouldn't 7 be extreme wrist coil and not preferred? Which number do you think would be a good starting point for field work? Thx!
Assuming "0" is pointed at the target. My grip is around 4 from reachback into the power zone around 5 and then trying to maintain that as long/forward as possible. At release my grip would be around -4 to -5. I'm focused on throwing the edge of the disc from where my thumb is pointed around 7-8 forward to the target, so my thumb is pointed at the target at release and that 7-8 edge(weighted edge/hammer head) of the disc is moving the fastest at release from back to forward toward the target.
 
Ken Climo: "In general, the bend in my wrist matches the amount of power needed for the shot. If I only am throwing 50%, then the wrist is 50% cocked etc. If I'm going to throw as hard as I can, then my wrist will be curled to the fullest. Not cocking too much on the shorter shots creates more control. It's progressive all the way down to the putt, where I don't cock my wrist."

hmm...
I believe he is talking about during the throw, not pre-cocking.
 
I still wonder about this. I've always thought nose up meant the disc would literally go up, stall, etc. But would even an ever so slight...nose up cause a dramatic difference in potential distance?

Easiest way to play around with nose angle is to try a bonopane grip, it brings the nose down for you. It is a bit painful and can be hard to use at full power but you will see how the disc flies when it is nose down.
bonopane.jpg
 
Easiest way to play around with nose angle is to try a bonopane grip, it brings the nose down for you. It is a bit painful and can be hard to use at full power but you will see how the disc flies when it is nose down.
2 finger grip also helps and easier to throw far.
 
I have learned my form from many YouTube videos and they've all given me a little extra distance at a time.
Like others are saying, here are a few pointers.
1.Its not all in the arms, you need to use your core and your legs.
2. Be smooth, not "jerky"
3. "Slow to fast"- you shouldn't really be pulling or ripping through with the disc until the disc reaches your mid section(core).
4. Work on your follow through, it is very important at least in the shaping of the line.
These tips come from various pros such as feldberg, Schultz, and mcbeth.
 
Ok; arm speed isn't the most critical part of throwing. But if it were the thing to work on, does anyone have successful ways to do that?
 
Thanks again for the continued comments. I did some field work yesterday and I am definitely throwing nose up. The flight path of my typical throws rise steadily, and then fade left. However once in a while I would get a good rip and the disc would fly straight, fade right, and then finish left, but still a tad nose up since the disc is still rising during flight. When trying to incorporate the ideas in this thread, I had random results but once in a while things would magically work and I would throw 60ft farther than my typical groupings. So now I'm trying to understand if I understand how the wrist should work during the hit, once I get this I think I'll be on my way.

I think my original picture with the numbers could be better understood using a clock, so I'll just refer to a clock for the following question. This is how I'm understanding the wrist/hand position during the throw:

The hand starts out around 3:00, which basically is no cocking the wrist at all. As you pull the wrist across your chest it coils back to around 11:00-12:00 and then right at the hit, it uncoils rapidly (explosively) almost in a whipping fashion as the disc is launched out of your hand, resulting in your hand probably turning clockwise down to 5:00-6:00.

If I'm wrong, then it would be super helpful if someone could simply videotape the position of the wrist during the throw, from a close up overhead view. :) Thanks again for all the help!
 
Assuming "0" is pointed at the target. My grip is around 4 from reachback into the power zone around 5 and then trying to maintain that as long/forward as possible. At release my grip would be around -4 to -5. I'm focused on throwing the edge of the disc from where my thumb is pointed around 7-8 forward to the target, so my thumb is pointed at the target at release and that 7-8 edge(weighted edge/hammer head) of the disc is moving the fastest at release from back to forward toward the target.

Disc fifty - the above posted by Sidewinder is about ideal positioning of the hand using your numbers to put this into clock terminology with 12 pointed at the target and 6 directly away from the target. You start around 8/9ish, as the hand moves past the body it bunches up slightly and gets to about 7 (this is the idea of allowing the wrist to be fluid - not limp but fluid, allowing it to go where it wants to go but controlling it, this will be cocked slightly, but importantly you didn't cock it, the forward momentum did - and yes some players like Avery do keep it a lot straighter, but you need a lot of strength and timing to make this work, I personally have more success with the way Sidewinder describes)

As you get to the furthest possible point with the lower arm chop your focus should be on pulling (and this for me is the main thing to focus on, you are actively pulling this around not letting it happen passively) the back end of the disc round to the front - this is the Hit, this is exactly what Sidewinder describes with his hand position again ending at -4 -5 which on a clock would be 3 or 4 oclock, this final hand position is likely to show someone full hitting it which I assume looking at Sidewinders profile pic he is, if you can hold onto the thing through to about 1 you will be getting a good rip and be seeing a totally different flight path on the disc to what you are probably used to, much more spin for a start.

Keeping hold of it through to 3 or 4oclock and actually making that extra add to the power of the throw (this is where the idea of the reverse thumb lead and the disc feeling like it is being ejected/pushed out of the hand rather than ripping off the fingers -symptomatic of a slip- comes in.) is where you get big distance for minimal effort (apart from seriously worked out lower arm muscles that might not have been worked in that way since your teenage years alone ;) )

Try this motion really small - further forward than from the right pec. Put your arm out in a position as though it is at the end of the lower arm chop (your point of contact where you would want the Hit to happen) and get your hand so it is at about 8 oclock on the disc - it will be bunched up slightly into your wrist, the thumb should be pointing at about 5 oclock- and then focus on pulling the back end around to the front, now your thumb should be pointing at about 12.

Now add about 6 to 8 inches of just arm movement to this and try to do the same movement timing it to pull the nose of the disc round when you feel the weight of the disc. You will find this is very similar to the hammer pound drills and you may want to do this outdoors as there is every chance it will break your grip if timed right. A very small motion can produce one hell of a lot of energy as you pivot it around your grip. You should also find that to keep your hand on the outside to this point and to keep your thumb pointing to 5/6 oclock you will need to keep your front shoulder closed (another benefit)
 
Disc fifty - the above posted by Sidewinder is about ideal positioning of the hand using your numbers to put this into clock terminology with 12 pointed at the target and 6 directly away from the target. You start around 8/9ish, as the hand moves past the body it bunches up slightly and gets to about 7 (this is the idea of allowing the wrist to be fluid - not limp but fluid, allowing it to go where it wants to go but controlling it, this will be cocked slightly, but importantly you didn't cock it, the forward momentum did - and yes some players like Avery do keep it a lot straighter, but you need a lot of strength and timing to make this work, I personally have more success with the way Sidewinder describes)

As you get to the furthest possible point with the lower arm chop your focus should be on pulling (and this for me is the main thing to focus on, you are actively pulling this around not letting it happen passively) the back end of the disc round to the front - this is the Hit, this is exactly what Sidewinder describes with his hand position again ending at -4 -5 which on a clock would be 3 or 4 oclock, this final hand position is likely to show someone full hitting it which I assume looking at Sidewinders profile pic he is, if you can hold onto the thing through to about 1 you will be getting a good rip and be seeing a totally different flight path on the disc to what you are probably used to, much more spin for a start.

Keeping hold of it through to 3 or 4oclock and actually making that extra add to the power of the throw (this is where the idea of the reverse thumb lead and the disc feeling like it is being ejected/pushed out of the hand rather than ripping off the fingers -symptomatic of a slip- comes in.) is where you get big distance for minimal effort (apart from seriously worked out lower arm muscles that might not have been worked in that way since your teenage years alone ;) )

Try this motion really small - further forward than from the right pec. Put your arm out in a position as though it is at the end of the lower arm chop (your point of contact where you would want the Hit to happen) and get your hand so it is at about 8 oclock on the disc - it will be bunched up slightly into your wrist, the thumb should be pointing at about 5 oclock- and then focus on pulling the back end around to the front, now your thumb should be pointing at about 12.

Now add about 6 to 8 inches of just arm movement to this and try to do the same movement timing it to pull the nose of the disc round when you feel the weight of the disc. You will find this is very similar to the hammer pound drills and you may want to do this outdoors as there is every chance it will break your grip if timed right. A very small motion can produce one hell of a lot of energy as you pivot it around your grip. You should also find that to keep your hand on the outside to this point and to keep your thumb pointing to 5/6 oclock you will need to keep your front shoulder closed (another benefit)

That explains it perfectly. I had to print it on paper and rotate it 90 degrees since I was assuming 3:00 was pointing to the right instead of 12:00. ;) lol..

The only thing left (for me at least) is the feeling that I'm over coiling the disc, it will actually be resting on my forearm if I coil all the way to 6:00-8:00 (with 12:00 going straight). But you do mention this "it will be bunched up slightly into your wrist", this didn't feel right yesterday when this happened, but when you're re-tooling alot feels clumsy at first.

You guys rock, thanks so much for taking the time to help old farts, noobs, etc, like me. I GREATLY appreciate your time. :clap::thmbup:
 
^All of these responses are bang on to what I feel. It seems like you understand what is supposed to happen. Just realize that with proper timing and body positions, the wrist stuff takes care of itself. Once you can do it consistently, then you can try to add more power into it and play around with how firm you want your wrist to be.

That other thread I had with the diagrams is how I learned to feel the wrist loading and how to get my elbow out front to the correct positions. If that type of thing still doesn't click for you then that's fine, just experiment with your own body positions and try to get that loading/unloading feeling.

As for nose down, this article: https://www.dgcoursereview.com/dgr/resources/articles/gripittoripit.shtml in the second set of diagrams where it shows how to put the disc in the seam of the hand...try putting it even lower. Try putting the disc almost on the middle finger knuckle and then wrapping your fingers around. Everybody's hands and wrists are a bit different, but my point is just experiment with grip orientation and wrist angle until you can get consistent nose down flights. I would rather position the disc a bit more nose down and tilt my wrist less, than to have to tilt my wrist a ton. The more I tilt my wrist, the harder it is to let it close/open on the same plane.
 
The more I tilt my wrist, the harder it is to let it close/open on the same plane.

Ideally there will be no tilt in your wrist. You are better off adjusting the disc angle in your hand and leaving the wrist as neutral as possible. This allows for the best lever action from the wrist joints.
 
Last update and then it's time for serious re-tooling. Long story short, thanks to this thread I'm throwing as far from a stand still or 1 step, compared to my x-step. So now I need to continue working on this for a while and then try adding in the x-step. Thanks again for all the comments!
 

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