How To Increase Arm Speed?

[rhatton1]

Ideally there will be no tilt in your wrist. You are better off adjusting the disc angle in your hand and leaving the wrist as neutral as possible. This allows for the best lever action from the wrist joints.

I may be being thick here but i don't totally understand this (or maybe misunderstanding terminology) ?

to get the nose down I have always gone with the handshake down position (shown very well in some of Blakes write ups on DGR and Mike C's video backhand driving) This has the wrist pointing down. How do you change the angle of the disc in your hand without using the wrist?

 

[rhatton1]

Edit* This could be something to do with my stunty little fingers struggling to get over the rim at the best of times....

 

[DiscFifty]

Easiest way to play around with nose angle is to try a bonopane grip, it brings the nose down for you. It is a bit painful and can be hard to use at full power but you will see how the disc flies when it is nose down.

For ****s and giggles I went out this morning and tried this grip. Before I even threw it I could visually see and feel how further down the nose was on the disc compared to my usual power grip. I have short fingers, small hand, so I've always wondered if that was affecting my grip. Frickin first throw the disc flew like it was supposed to. 2nd, 3rd, etc, etc, every throw the disc (Daedalus) flew exactly as advertised and my groupings were 20-50ft further than my typical groupings. Accuracy was also fine. So this 100% tells me I have a problem with my grip. :doh:

Thanks rocthecourse! Not sure if I'll continue with this grip or not, but like you said it immediately solved the nose down issue and allowed me to see how the disc should be flying. :clap::clap::clap:

 

[New013]

To touch on some earlier topics in the thread brought up by HUB... when I'm trying to throw for distance my form is different than when I'm throwing standard golf shots; and I'm not just talking about the lines I'm trying to hit.

When I'm throwing most golf shots which for me locally is 300' and under shots I'm almost never trying to get a full hit and full snap. I can throw 300' much easier if I get a full snap but for me I tend to lose my ability to gauge distance. If I back off and try to glide a mid I can be much more accurate.

Even when I'm throwing drivers on golf lines I'm not really trying to get a full hit. The only times I'm ever focusing on getting a full solid hit for a golf shot is when I'm trying to throw a big hyzer or anhyzer, or when I'm trying to punch a driver on a really low straight line for considerable distance.

So I would say it's really important to figure out how to get a full hit and how to use that but at the same time you need to understand what works best for you in all situations. It's great to really figure out the mechanics of throwing far but most of the time you won't need to get a full runup, a big weightshift or a full hit.

 

[knettles]

Ok; arm speed isn't the most critical part of throwing. But if it were the thing to work on, does anyone have successful ways to do that?

First off, I think alot of people misconstrue what arm speed really means (or is intended to mean). I also heard a pro once say it was very important for big distance, along with timing and technique of course. But the kind of arm speed that is needed is that quick burst of energy at the hit. Someone else mentioned the fast twitch muscles. With a little bit of research, I discovered baseball pitchers have more/stronger fast twitch muscles than the average individual. But I'm with you on this one Dan, I still have yet to figure out how to actually improve one's fast twitch muscles (other than simply throwing a disc).

 

[roflsocks]

I still have yet to figure out how to actually improve one's fast twitch muscles (other than simply throwing a disc).

Not that it's particularly important for throwing far; technique being far more important than muscle and so on. But for what it's worth, you can train your fast twitch muscle fibers by doing (high weight low rep) strength training. As opposed to aerobic training, which would work your slow twitch. High reps with low weight will also improve primarily slow twitch.

So what that means is, the act of going out and throwing a disc isn't really going to improve your fast twitch much, because you're just throwing a lightweight object over and over. This is pretty much by definition low weight high rep exercise which works slow twitch.

High weight exercise should work your muscle groups to failure in a relatively low amount of reps. And it's important to work to failure, because your greatest gains come from when your muscles are so exhausted they can just barely finish that last rep before the next one becomes impossible. Compound exercises are generally better than isolation, and form is super important, because you can seriously injure yourself using poor form.

TLDR: Fast twich is for weightlifting. Disc golfers don't need weight training. But it has perks and other heath benefits so there's that.

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

IMO, which is worth only so much... so take it with a grain of salt... the easiest way by far to make substantial gains, is technique.

A way to increase hand speed, for lack of a better word, is to just delay the reach back. When you speed up the twist back and then forward, banging your upper body against your hips and then immediately springing back the other way - you are going to come through faster.

I'm not saying that I think this is really required for most players.



Simon comes in with more hand speed, but he still gets right pec w/ elbow extension and is hitting.


Great overhead at 2:02

I'm convinced that hand speed is worthless if it negatively effects the hit. Whatever the speed that the disc comes into the right pec at, you have to be able to load the mechanism and then unload it. If you come in too slow, it's detrimental to loading the wrist. Come in to fast, you probably won't get the timing right.

 

[Mocheez]

I'm convinced that hand speed is worthless if it negatively effects the hit. Whatever the speed that the disc comes into the right pec at, you have to be able to load the mechanism and then unload it. If you come in too slow, it's detrimental to loading the wrist. Come in to fast, you probably won't get the timing right.

The bolded part is the basis of "plyometric" excercises... quickly lengthening and then shortening the muscles (or tendons). Hammer pounds with increasingly heavier weights would be a good way to increase hand speed in a "plyometric" fashion. Instead of a disc, use a sock filled with rice.... three times a week and increase the amount of rice each week in 1-2 ounce increments.

 

[Shamis]

I've attached a picture with numbers from 0-7 (RHBH) with 0 being the least favorable position of the hand due to this would be "pulling" the disc. Unless I'm over thinking this and not getting it, wouldn't 7 be extreme wrist coil and not preferred? Which number do you think would be a good starting point for field work? Thx!

your hand should be at #4 when you pull through your chest/stomach. When you release it should be at zero.

If you look at figure 2 on this blog post, you can easily see that all the pros have their hand on the outside of the disc when they are pulling through their chest.
http://heavydisc.blogspot.fi/2013/11/improving-back-hand-distance.html

 

[Peter_LG]

I've attached a picture with numbers from 0-7 (RHBH) with 0 being the least favorable position of the hand due to this would be "pulling" the disc. Unless I'm over thinking this and not getting it, wouldn't 7 be extreme wrist coil and not preferred? Which number do you think would be a good starting point for field work? Thx!

I heard Eric McCabe say recently that if your hand is too far around on the disc (6 or 7), it will impede your reach back.

 

[rhatton1]

This thread is well worth reading with regards to hand placement/thumb positions how to get in to the power pocket and what your hand is going to be doing on the way out. HUB and the others have touched on all this stuff again and again but it always helps to have it said a hundred different ways as for someone the hundredth is the one that clicks the eureka button! I've said it many times, but try running though the things that are said as you are reading them with a disc in hand really really slowly, not trying to throw just working out positions, it helps me and has helped people I have taught just trying to work out the positions being talked about (especially those in Blakes posts) Some will feel weird some will suddenly click a light on in your brain and you will be stupidly excited to get into the field to throw...

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/dgr/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=23478&hilit=reverse+thumb+lead

 

[rhatton1]

Post from the incomplete secret technique which sums up what I was saying earlier in this thread about arm speed (and yes this thread has made me start reading all the old DGR threads yet again when I should be working - thanks for trying to get me fired )

e: The "Incomplete" Secret Technique
Postby Blake_T » Sat Jul 09, 2011 1:20 pm

congrats.

you were able to re-conceptualize your throw.

the hammer pound and thumb targeting are mainly a way to teach timing and break previous forms of intent, by giving a new intent to work on.

the intent of the hammer pound is to control the disc's weight shift and lever that into force applied to the disc. it's a familiar motion used to teach an unfamiliar motion/timing.

most people's intent is poor and they are unable to break that intent in order to improve their throw. e.g. if their intent is arm speed, they can successfully make their arm go fast, but this generally ignores making the disc go fast upon its release.

 

[DiscFifty]

I had a much longer rant/reply due to my excitement....lol...

2 days ago my typical max in competitive play was 250-320. Yesterday in competitive play I was routinely throwing 350+ and had 2 verified throws of 400ft and 440ft. The 440ft throw hit guardian trees on the fly about 60ft from a 500ft hole. (Flat elevation btw.) And for the record, these are not sky flex shots, these are low golf line throws which is just nuts!!!

2 Things are responsible for this. 1, having the wrist in the proper position during the hit, 2 keeping the nose down. Thanks to rocthecourse for suggesting the bonopane grip as that instantly solved the nose down issue.

According to research the bonopane grip doesn't provide as much power compared to a power grip, and is supposed to cause pain, etc. It seems very comfortable to me and I have minimal pain issues so far. I have small'ish fingers, could that be the reason this grip is working for me?

50-100ft added basically...over night. Seems crazy!! Now I'm torn between accepting this as my max-d grip or getting some lessons to try to dial in my power grip issues. Unless...the small finger issue could be an issue and I should just stick with the bonopane grip for max d?

Thanks again for all the comments in this thread! :clap:

 

[rhatton1]

That is a helluva result

Congratulations!!

And who are you kidding of course you are going to try for more

 

[DiscFifty]

That is a helluva result Congratulations!! And who are you kidding of course you are going to try for more

Thanks! (Thanks for all of your insights as well.) It's been kind of shocking to be honest. The way the disc just keeps on flying now is sooo cool. I also think I'm getting alot more spin (due to this thread) causing the disc to glide so much longer. wow...

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

I know that it feels like more spin, but it's more ejection force which accelerates and as a by-product, increases spin.

The only reason I bring it up, is that it's easy to fall into the habit of trying to spin the disc. That habit will slow down the disc speed and still feel like you are loading the wrist.

It does look like a hover board though!

 

[DiscFifty]

I know that it feels like more spin, but it's more ejection force which accelerates and as a by-product, increases spin.

The only reason I bring it up, is that it's easy to fall into the habit of trying to spin the disc. That habit will slow down the disc speed and still feel like you are loading the wrist.

It does look like a hover board though!

ahh...very interesting and great point! Awesome insight and comments as usual, thanks! And yes...the hover board analogy is dead on btw! :clap:

 

[rocthecourse]

I had a much longer rant/reply due to my excitement....lol...

2 days ago my typical max in competitive play was 250-320. Yesterday in competitive play I was routinely throwing 350+ and had 2 verified throws of 400ft and 440ft. The 440ft throw hit guardian trees on the fly about 60ft from a 500ft hole. (Flat elevation btw.) And for the record, these are not sky flex shots, these are low golf line throws which is just nuts!!!

2 Things are responsible for this. 1, having the wrist in the proper position during the hit, 2 keeping the nose down. Thanks to rocthecourse for suggesting the bonopane grip as that instantly solved the nose down issue.

According to research the bonopane grip doesn't provide as much power compared to a power grip, and is supposed to cause pain, etc. It seems very comfortable to me and I have minimal pain issues so far. I have small'ish fingers, could that be the reason this grip is working for me?

50-100ft added basically...over night. Seems crazy!! Now I'm torn between accepting this as my max-d grip or getting some lessons to try to dial in my power grip issues. Unless...the small finger issue could be an issue and I should just stick with the bonopane grip for max d?

Thanks again for all the comments in this thread! :clap:

Nice, glad I could help. I used the bonopane grip on and off for about a month, it helped me to feel how the disc was supposed to be sitting in my hand to get a nose down flight. Once I got that feel I was able to go back to a power grip.

 

[TalbotTrojan]

Nice, glad I could help. I used the bonopane grip on and off for about a month, it helped me to feel how the disc was supposed to be sitting in my hand to get a nose down flight. Once I got that feel I was able to go back to a power grip.

I am glad to hear you were able to switch back to the power grip and not have issues with nose angle again. I think a different grip is great but also tends to be a bit of a gmimic at times. My philosophy is that if you do simple things like change to an odd grip to solve the problem, the tendency is to not u ally solve the problem but to just put a band aide on the issue and then hope it fixe's itself in the long run. That being said, figure out what works best for you and use it.

 

[Dan Ensor]

One of the guys I played with for a while used the Bonopane as his max D grip due to odd finger configuration. I think I remember reading that someone had won Worlds with a Bonopane grip. Even though it's weird, and it's never the first grip I show people ... it does seem to have it's place.