Hyzer-Flip vs Wrist-Roll

[sbinwien]

How do I know the difference between a Hyzer-Flip and a Wrist-Roll?

The story...
I throw my similar weights ESP Avenger SS and my DX Tee-Bird on slight hyzer lines and sometimes my Avenger SS turns to flat and my Tee-Bird never does. It stays on the line it was thrown.
I would think this was something of a hyzer-flip, but the Avenger SS is a Speed 10 disc, while the Tee-Bird is a Speed 7 disc.
So, I am thinking it is due to wrist-roll.

Almost half of the time I crank on my Avenger SS it turns and burns, between 250-300 feet. But my Star Roadrunner (Speed 9) just turns on the line it was thrown.

I typically max out around 300 feet, if that information helps.

Any feedback would be appreciated?

 

[Technohic]

I would expect an avenger SS to turn where the Teebird does because it is an understable disc and a Teebird is a pretty true stable disc.

At 300' though; you shouldnt be turning and burning the SS. How worn is the SS?

I would like to jump on the wrist roll thing and OAT but of the Roadrunner doesnt turn as much as the SS at least, then there might be something weird with the disc.

 

[craftsman]

While it is a turnover/roller driver, at your distance it should be a long h flip to straight or straight to turnover, possibly your longest driver.
Could be wrist roll but if your throwing the tb well, you may be trying too hard with the a.ss and thus dripping your shoulder.
Try adding some hyzer and leaning over instead of straight while standing straight.

 

[sbinwien]

I would expect an avenger SS to turn where the Teebird does because it is an understable disc and a Teebird is a pretty true stable disc.

At 300' though; you shouldnt be turning and burning the SS. How worn is the SS?

I would like to jump on the wrist roll thing and OAT but of the Roadrunner doesnt turn as much as the SS at least, then there might be something weird with the disc.

The disc is not worn. It is used, but not really broken in yet.

The Roadrunner is what throws me off too. I would expect to do the same thing with the Roadrunner.

 

[sbinwien]

While it is a turnover/roller driver, at your distance it should be a long h flip to straight or straight to turnover, possibly your longest driver.
Could be wrist roll but if your throwing the tb well, you may be trying too hard with the a.ss and thus dripping your shoulder.
Try adding some hyzer and leaning over instead of straight while standing straight.

I completely agree with you. I am doing something different with this disc that I do not do with the Tee-Bird or Roadrunner.

I will give it a try. Thanks!

 

[garublador]

How do I know the difference between a Hyzer-Flip and a Wrist-Roll?

A hyzer flip is where you throw the disc on a hyzer and it flips up to flat or turns over. Wrist roll is manipulating your wrist orientation at the hit whether it's over or under and it could be intentional or accidental. It adds OAT that will either make the disc fly more or less overstable than it would on an OAT free throw. Hyzer flips can happen because of a combination of speed and nose down angle or because of wrist roll or any other type of OAT.

The story...
I throw my similar weights ESP Avenger SS and my DX Tee-Bird on slight hyzer lines and sometimes my Avenger SS turns to flat and my Tee-Bird never does. It stays on the line it was thrown.
I would think this was something of a hyzer-flip, but the Avenger SS is a Speed 10 disc, while the Tee-Bird is a Speed 7 disc.
So, I am thinking it is due to wrist-roll.

Almost half of the time I crank on my Avenger SS it turns and burns, between 250-300 feet. But my Star Roadrunner (Speed 9) just turns on the line it was thrown.

I typically max out around 300 feet, if that information helps.

Any feedback would be appreciated?

It's hard to tell whether it's OAT or not. There could be some in there, but my understanding of the Avenger SS is that it's kind of squirrley to begin with, so it's hard to tell exactly why it's turning. I'd guess that turning at 250-300' would indicate some level of OAT, though. From what I understand about the Roadrunner, it's quite a bit more consistent with its turn. Newer DX Teebirds are difficult to turn.

Generally, it's much easier to gauge how much OAT you have by throwing slower, neutral discs like beaded putters and stable mids. You've selected three difficult to gauge discs to use for comparison.

 

[sbinwien]

It's hard to tell whether it's OAT or not. There could be some in there, but my understanding of the Avenger SS is that it's kind of squirrley to begin with, so it's hard to tell exactly why it's turning. I'd guess that turning at 250-300' would indicate some level of OAT, though. From what I understand about the Roadrunner, it's quite a bit more consistent with its turn. Newer DX Teebirds are difficult to turn.

Generally, it's much easier to gauge how much OAT you have by throwing slower, neutral discs like beaded putters and stable mids. You've selected three difficult to gauge discs to use for comparison.

Thanks for the disc reminder. It has been a while since I practice driving with putters. I will have spend some time with them again.

The distance at which the Avenger SS disc turns into the ground was the reason I was thinking of OAT.

Garub: Thanks for the DX Tee-Bird recommendation a couple months ago. I bought two just before I lost my blue Champion version that always seemed too over-stable for me. The DX have been great discs that fly straighter and farther and with less effort. It is true that they are still pretty new and will take me a while to break in.

So, back to the putters and focusing on form.

 

[garublador]

Thanks for the disc reminder. It has been a while since I practice driving with putters. I will have spend some time with them again.

I wouldn't think of driving with putters as a drill, I'd think of it as a fundamental skill. It's not just a way to fix some problems, it's something that you'll probably use a lot on the course.

 

[sbinwien]

I keep meaning to play a putter only rounds, but when I get their I fill my bag with discs...

The funny thing is how I really do use the putters a lot. 90% of my second throws are with the Putter, but I only drive with them on short holes (<250). I know they should be the control driver for the 300 ft holes too.

Thanks again for the advice!