Is philo bag too simple

[ThrowBot]

Over time is isn't unreasonable to develop different disc preferences with your different throws. They're two different grips and motions. Needing varying disc to accommodate different throwing styles makes sense.

No it's not unreasonable, but also not strictly necessary. I myself have different OS/stable putters in my bag for grip reasons: Zone for FH and Rhyno/Serpent for BH. However, I'm also able to imagine a mold minimalist that throws a variety of Aviars--both FH and BH--to cover all of their putter slots.

It just bugs me for someone to say that the Philo bag isn't too simple for an all BH player, but it is too simple for a BH & FH player. It's purely hypothetical anyway, so why not imagine a FH/BH player that can throw those 5 molds FH as well as BH? I'd be interested to hear what additional mold(s) people think are needed to make a bag "complicated enough" for someone that throws a decent amount of FH shots.

(In reality, of course, Philo does very well throwing almost exclusively BH.)

 

[Three Putt]

I have no dog in this hunt, but to me the advantage of cycling is the familiar feel and grip over a variety of shots. You get comfortable with the feel in the hand and that confidence helps. Once you move to a FH shot, the grip is so different that it doesn't matter. For example if I'm just throwing backhand I feel like just throwing a TeeBird and using hyzer or anhyzer and the condition of the disc to effect the throw helps me be comfortable, but if I'm going to throw a FH shot in there it doesn't matter if I choose a TeeBird or a Banshee to do that. The grip is so different that I'm not going to be any more comfortable with that TeeBird I'm throwing backhand than I am the Banshee. So even though I try to stay as minimalist as I can, it opens up the possibility that I might choose to carry more discs for those FH shots. I don't have to, though.

 

[StevenSeagal]

I'm not talking about flight, I'm only talking about preference in feel of the disc

The rim of a destroyer can feel better for someone's long range BH and then they can prefer the rim of some other disc for long range FH drives. It's not a strange concept. I'm confused why so many in the thread are struggling with this.

Seconding this. I use softer plastics to get a better pinch on the flight plate for certain FH shots. For instance I bag three wraiths at any given time. One will always be a well seasoned echo or star that I use BH or FH for similar lines. IF I want a little more stability in my disc I'll opt for a significantly more overstable and domey champion plastic wraith when throwing BH and will use a softer, slightly less stable and flatter star for forehands.

 

[tbird888]

I love throwing Undertakers, Valks, Beasts, Buzzz's, Polecats, Comets... but if there's an open field in front of me, my Valk won't get me 400' nearly as easy as my Crank or Katana.

You mean a disc that's nearing the end of its reliable golf distance isn't as long as discs that are at the beginning of their reliable range? Imagine that. The last disc I threw 400' easily was a Rival. Not sure what any of this has to do with anything. You do you man!

 

[F. Howl]

Hole 13, "the gorge" at 2017 Wintertime Open: McBeth threw a Gator, Philo a Firebird. Both on the same line, both parked it, but Philo probably needed to adjust his power more-so than Paul, who probably used the same stroke as a normal mid throw. More disc choices, less adjustments needed to the throw, more consistency? I don't know...

Philo's bag, as mentioned isn't simple. 21 discs is more than what 70% of this forum, bag. (according to that small sample of DGCR users who took that poll a few weeks ago.) Philo's got his shots covered, and I dig his simplistic cycle. If I played enough I might want to emulate it (except for my mid lineup!). I love buying shiny new plastic too much for it to ever last long, though.

I think Nate Doss is the guy with the most minimal bag in the top 10 right now. He carries 16 discs (one of which is an OOP XL just for rollers). 2 Challengers, 2 Buzzz's, 1 Wasp, 3 Predators, 2 identical Undertakers (which are starting to cover his beat Huklab Pred spot), and 5 Forces.

That kind of bag would be too simple for me to get by on.

 

[jmdaire27]

Hole 13, "the gorge" at 2017 Wintertime Open: McBeth threw a Gator, Philo a Firebird. Both on the same line, both parked it, but Philo probably needed to adjust his power more-so than Paul, who probably used the same stroke as a normal mid throw. More disc choices, less adjustments needed to the throw, more consistency? I don't know...

Philo's bag, as mentioned isn't simple. 21 discs is more than what 70% of this forum, bag. (according to that small sample of DGCR users who took that poll a few weeks ago.) Philo's got his shots covered, and I dig his simplistic cycle. If I played enough I might want to emulate it (except for my mid lineup!). I love buying shiny new plastic too much for it to ever last long, though.

I think Nate Doss is the guy with the most minimal bag in the top 10 right now. He carries 16 discs (one of which is an OOP XL just for rollers). 2 Challengers, 2 Buzzz's, 1 Wasp, 3 Predators, 2 identical Undertakers (which are starting to cover his beat Huklab Pred spot), and 5 Forces.

That kind of bag would be too simple for me to get by on.

Doss' bag is one that I like, and try to replicate (but don't succeed). Mids through drivers I have a similar set up (DS, Felon/Undy/Pat, Verdict/Truth) but I like my putters (Judge/envy).

 

[davetherocketguy]

So was watching Philo in the bag and other pros in the bag is it me or does philo bag seem so simple than let's say Mcbeast or another pro. Yes I do know philo isn't probably playing in like big events like other pros but his bag so simple.

I look at it like this...the dude is a 1000+ rated player so as far as I am concerned whatever he is doing is absolutely the correct answer for him and there is no too much this or too little that. Ever. It certainly isn't time to question the wisdom of what he's throwing...it's time to figure out what he's doing right.

Maybe that's where you were going with it originally...I donno.

 

[armiller]

...but if you have trouble with slower discs, I reckon you might see more gains from your faster drivers if you could throw slower drivers better...

I don't think I'm having problems with slower discs. Though I guess because I can't throw a Valkyrie FH 430' that means I am? Guess I oughta move to a Comet for a while.

You mean a disc that's nearing the end of its reliable golf distance isn't as long as discs that are at the beginning of their reliable range? Imagine that. The last disc I threw 400' easily was a Rival. Not sure what any of this has to do with anything. You do you man!

You throw farther than me. I think you also understand what I'm saying... In the end, I bet your extra distance is more because of extra speed on release than because of decreased OAT. Guess there's no way for me to prove it though.

Tough to argue with anyone saying that Jerm has good forehand form... why did I even respond to any of these posts? Go Philo...

 

[runningDoc]

think about mcbeth's sidearm.

from 250-400+ft 99% of the time he slings star destroyers.

and he probably has one of the best sidearm in the game.

he weirdly has a super simple sidearm disc lineup (a destroyer) but backhands it's a lot molds.

 

[runningDoc]

the argument could be made that philo has too simple of a bag if he only threw and bagged a total of 5 discs.

but he's rocking a near 25 disc total bag. 5 molds with around 5 discs or more of each mold seasoned to varying degrees of perfection. that's a ton of discs.

he's throwing like 5 different dx rancho rocs!! that's some super fine tuned stuff.

even guys like brinster and climo season pro plastic rocs over the dx rocs.

 

[westdisc91]

Hole 13, "the gorge" at 2017 Wintertime Open: McBeth threw a Gator, Philo a Firebird. Both on the same line, both parked it, but Philo probably needed to adjust his power more-so than Paul, who probably used the same stroke as a normal mid throw. More disc choices, less adjustments needed to the throw, more consistency? I don't know...

Philo's bag, as mentioned isn't simple. 21 discs is more than what 70% of this forum, bag. (according to that small sample of DGCR users who took that poll a few weeks ago.) Philo's got his shots covered, and I dig his simplistic cycle. If I played enough I might want to emulate it (except for my mid lineup!). I love buying shiny new plastic too much for it to ever last long, though.

I think Nate Doss is the guy with the most minimal bag in the top 10 right now. He carries 16 discs (one of which is an OOP XL just for rollers). 2 Challengers, 2 Buzzz's, 1 Wasp, 3 Predators, 2 identical Undertakers (which are starting to cover his beat Huklab Pred spot), and 5 Forces.

That kind of bag would be too simple for me to get by on.

Yes I was gonna add doss in as well

 

[StevenSeagal]

I'd be interested to hear what additional mold(s) people think are needed to make a bag "complicated enough" for someone that throws a decent amount of FH shots.

(In reality, of course, Philo does very well throwing almost exclusively BH.)

Why else do people carry more than one of the same mold in the first place? If it is advantageous to carry multiple discs of the same mold for throwing backhand then why can't it also be true for forehand? It's not about complicating at all. In fact it's about the exact opposite and simplifying all the variables. You could throw a lot of discs on the exact same line by adjusting disc angle and hand speed but that doesn't mean all things are equal and you can conceptualize all the different variations with equal accuracy. We're humans not robots.

It all comes down to selecting the disc that is LEAST likely to deviate from the intended line. That line has its own shape and so does your disc. Pairing a disc with the appropriate speed and flight characteristics with the intended line allows you to simplify the overall problem. Proper disc selection augments your ability to conceptualize and execute the throw because it is less mental physics and is physically closer to throwing "true" or whatever is your baseline natural and ingrained throwing mechanics.

Why else do people carry more than one of the same mold in the first place? If it is advantageous to carry multiple discs of the same mold for throwing backhand then why can't it also be true for forehand?

As to which disc Philo would need depends on what type of hypothetical FH game we're going to give Philo. If you could impart Nate Sexton's skill on Philo he would need whatever Sexton bags for forehands.

 

[DiscinFiend]

I agree with everyone who says you can throw every disc sidearm & backhand. I just think certain discs "feel better" in your hand when thrown sidearm or backhand. For instance, I prefer to flick flat & beadless discs. Though I really like throwing beaded discs backhand & I don't mind some dome. So its hard for me to bag discs that I can't throw both sidearm & backhand (limited bag space). For instance I prefer the Rhyno over the Pig when throwing backhand. I bag a Pig though because it doesn't have a bead. So I can throw it forehand & backhand. It also depends on how far you can throw both ways. I can throw a lot farther backhand than I can sidearm. So I cycle Star Destroyers for my distance backhand discs. I'll still flick a Destroyer but I can't throw it less than 80-90% power or I won't get it up to speed. So it will just be overstable at a lower amount of power. I've been experimenting with Orcs/Wraiths. I can get (about) the same distance sidearm with them as I do with a Destroyer sidearm (with less effort). I've actually been considering carrying a Wraith for this exact reason. So how a disc feels in your hand & the distance differential between your forehand/backhand can definitely come into play. That's why I think guys who throw about equality forehand/backhand tend to carry more molds than guys who just throw backhand.

Here's Big Jerm on this topic. Earlier in this video he says he prefers to flick beadless discs

Start at 44:00

 

[Monocacy]

I agree with everyone who says you can throw every disc sidearm & backhand. I just think certain discs "feel better" in your hand when thrown sidearm or backhand. For instance, I prefer to flick flat & beadless discs. . . .

I agree with this. I switched from Roc to Buzzz (and later Truth) because I had a hard time getting a clean sidearm release with the bead on the Roc. I still miss Rocs sometimes, but I prefer to limit the number of discs I carry.

Drivers are usually more shallow, so for me this has only been an issue with putters and mids. YMMV.

 

[threej21]

I too am a mold minimalist, and fwiw, also throw predominantly BH. I like carrying less molds because there is less variance in the way the disc(s) feel in hand. So it is very comfortable for me. I of course am no Philo, but I'm a decent 968 rated golfer.
My bag:

Mcpro Aviars - 2 putting, 2 throwing
KC Rocs - 4 in cycle
FD's - 3
Sidewinders - 3
Wraiths - 5

Utility discs - 1 FB, 1 rhyno, 1 jokeri

 

[tbird888]

I don't think I'm having problems with slower discs. Though I guess because I can't throw a Valkyrie FH 430' that means I am? Guess I oughta move to a Comet for a while.

You throw farther than me. I think you also understand what I'm saying... In the end, I bet your extra distance is more because of extra speed on release than because of decreased OAT. Guess there's no way for me to prove it though.

Tough to argue with anyone saying that Jerm has good forehand form... why did I even respond to any of these posts? Go Philo...

None of what I said was meant as pointing fingers and telling you that, and you conveniently edited my preface out. I was as surprised as anyone that I was seeing that Rival distance, and it kind of changed my outlook that there was nothing wrong with my original throwing style. Keep throwing however you want and pick up some more tissues. Sounds like you're going to need them.

 

[Horsman]

Discs don't have limitations. People do.

 

[Nenja]

Now I feel like discing down...

The ones I throw more than once every round:
Pure
Nova
Harp
2 compass
River
River Pro
2 Saint Pro
2 Flow

Add Avery Teebird & Firebird for OS utility, what else would one need?

 

[dwindacatcher]

I have actually been trying to minimalize my bag recently. I prefer having the same feel in the hand every time. Ive cut 5 molds out and replaced them with lighter discs of my other molds/more beat in. Or just dropped them altogether to make things simpler. Right now I have 2 putter, 2 mid, 4 fairway, 3 driver. One of the fairways is a mold I bag for rollers only. One of the mid molds is a placeholder until I can beat in a disc straight to understable. One driver mold might get removed altogether soon. I think my sweet spot I'm among for is 8 or 9 molds. But that doesn't mean I won't try new discs and see if they stick. Right now I have a relativity that a lightweight teleport might be able to replace if they ever come out with them. Than again, the teleport and relativity feel the exact same in my hand.

 

[Jesterian]

Minimalism is important, but so is knowing what you can replace a disc with immediately without seasoning it.

As a Florida golfer, I have to be ready to lose a disc at any given time, for no good reason, due to saw palmettos absolutely consuming discs and making them unfindable. Because of that, I don't have a beat-in Star Destroyer, so I throw Pro Destroyers (flippy right off the shelf). I don't have a beat-in Teebird, so I carry a Leopard. I don't have a beat in Orc, so I have some Beasts. I don't have a beat in Roc, so I have a Comet. And so on.

Sure, as I slowly end up with more beat versions of my mainstays they may shift into those spots, but being able to replace them quickly and confidently is super important to having a complete bag.