Is "Recreational" misleading?

[Future_Primitive]

solutions in search of a problem once again. can anyone direct me to the results of an event/events where this "problem" actually occurred? it sure isn't happening around here.

Apologies if my post read like I confirming the existence of actual sand bagging that was not my intention at all. My suggestion had more to do with battling the perception of bagging as posters below my post have pointed out. Either in jest or ignorance the word bagging is thrown a lot at almost every tournament. Players that have played a long time and been around the tournament scene know the actual cases of bagging are quite rare.

But obviously there is a perception problem when somebody with no PDGA # signs up right before the tournament then proceeds to play very well and take home prizes. Maybe it is his/her home course, maybe just a hot round or two or maybe they played in division lower than they might have had they been a member with a rating. Who knows, but it doesnt stop the comments about them being a bagger. Does this discourage new players who might be a new PDGA member from reupping next year? Does it sour some players on PDGA events?

Would it help remove the perception of bagging if unregistered players played in their own division with all other non-members? Would PDGA registered players stop yelling "bagger" if everyone in their division was a PDGA member? As long as non-members can simply plop down an extra $10 and jump in any division of their choosing the perception of bagging will continue. Would it behoove the PDGA to take a proactive approach to removing this perception?

 

[TimSyl]

Haven't read through the entire thread, but even more misleading is the "Novice" division.

 

[Stardoggy]

Not quite as easy as you make it sound:

* You might reduce attendance, since some people will be prohibited in playing in the division of their choice, or friends playing together if their ratings aren't close, or whatever. The evidence is that plenty of people are happy playing about their rating, for whatever reason; I surmise they'd be less happy if not allowed to.
* Much more checking of ratings for the TDs to do, particularly on late morning-of registrants. As it is now, it's rare that we deal with someone who's rating is too high (and we don't have to check at all of MA1).
* What if only 1 person in a given rating range registers? Force him to play in a division of 1?
* Much harder to get first-timers to try the tournament experience, if it demands being put in the toughest division.

I dunno...attendance is pretty robust in these parts, and the percentage of non-members is pretty low. I think people would get over the "play your rating" thing pretty quickly, except where it hurts their feelings. Too bad, so sad.

Yes, there'd be checking for day-of registrants. Or you just don't allow walk-ups. Or day-of's are relegated to trophy only, if absolutely necessary.

If one person is in a division, they bump up as needed to play in an applicable division.

First timers...well...there's always unsanctioned. I do like the idea of a "non member" division, though...especially if it's made trophy only. Eliminate the $10 fee while doing this.

 

[Cgkdisc]

I think allowing moving up just one level only might be an acceptable next step. I could see allowing a two level move up only if your native division and the one above are not offered. Of course, anyone should still be allowed to enter Open whether Am or Pro.

 

[Three Putt]

First timers...well...there's always unsanctioned. I do like the idea of a "non member" division, though...especially if it's made trophy only. Eliminate the $10 fee while doing this.

Here is my "what about" with this idea. I'm expired. I don't really buy the whole "Pro disc golf mission' of the PDGA so I don't feel like donating my membership fee BUT I'd consider once or twice a year throwing Grandmasters for the extra $10 and hanging out with the old guys. If you make me play in a non-members pool with all ages and all levels of experience, no way I'm playing. No-way, no-how. It takes a "sounds fun" scenario and turns it into a "I'd hate that more than being attacked by fire ants" scenario.

So you take what is essentially an idea to combat a sandbagging problem that really isn't a problem and turn actual disc golfers away. That's fine for areas that are selling out, but there are still places that are not selling out.

I would think the TD would need the flexibility to not follow the non-member division, which should be no big deal since they don't have to offer all the divisions anyway.

 

[Three Putt]

I think allowing moving up just one level only might be an acceptable next step. I could see allowing a two level move up only if your native division and the one above are not offered. Of course, anyone should still be allowed to enter Open whether Am or Pro.

So basically you are saying if I'm 880 rated I should play Recreational, I can play Intermediate, I can't play Advanced, but I can play Open?

I think the only practical issue I can think of is guys that travel to multiple day/course tournaments. I know people who were Rec rated but played Advanced because they were riding with somebody who was Adv rated and if they played Rec getting a ride to the course was going to be a hassle. They wanted to play for the experience more than anything so getting buried at the bottom of Adv was less of a problem to them than the stress of bumming a ride with somebody they didn't know back and forth to courses.

 

[Future_Primitive]

Here is my "what about" with this idea. I'm expired. I don't really buy the whole "Pro disc golf mission' of the PDGA so I don't feel like donating my membership fee BUT I'd consider once or twice a year throwing Grandmasters for the extra $10 and hanging out with the old guys. If you make me play in a non-members pool with all ages and all levels of experience, no way I'm playing. No-way, no-how. It takes a "sounds fun" scenario and turns it into a "I'd hate that more than being attacked by fire ants" scenario.

So you take what is essentially an idea to combat a sandbagging problem that really isn't a problem and turn actual disc golfers away. That's fine for areas that are selling out, but there are still places that are not selling out.

I would think the TD would need the flexibility to not follow the non-member division, which should be no big deal since they don't have to offer all the divisions anyway.

Thanks for the reply and different perspective which exposes a definite flaw in my proposal. :doh:

Would it be possible to exclude age protected divisions from this non-member division? Since ratings don't really apply to divisions like Grandmaster, only your actual age, there is no need to for "bagging". If your 40 and over you can play in Masters or non-member division? So in reality you would only be protecting AM2, AM3 and AM4 as those are the only divisions where bagging could be perceived.

Any player, PDGA or non-PDGA, could play Open, Am1 (no ratings cap) and any age protected division they quality for. They simply can't play AM2, AM3 or AM4 without being a PDGA member? Just spitballing here.

 

[Cgkdisc]

A related issue is PDGA older pros have to have a rating below a certain level to slide over to play in the am version of their age range. So let's say I'm a pro caliber GM (local leagues) without a PDGA number and want to play Adv GM. If I had a rating it might be 920. However, as a PDGA GM pro I have to be under 900 to slide over to Adv GM.

 

[Ye Olde Am]

Lol at the Dunning-Kruger effect. My ineptitude at disc golf shows up on the scorecard. Every. Single. Time.

I think I'm going to open a disc golf business to cater to my kind. I'm going to call it "Bottom Card Disc Golfers." I'm only going to sell Stingrays. What do you think?

You should offer a package deal that includes a wolf.

 

[Three Putt]

You should offer a package deal that includes a wolf.

Even bottom card discs golfers have more self-respect that to throw a Wolf. :|

 

[Three Putt]

A related issue is PDGA older pros have to have a rating below a certain level to slide over to play in the am version of their age range. So let's say I'm a pro caliber GM (local leagues) without a PDGA number and want to play Adv GM. If I had a rating it might be 920. However, as a PDGA GM pro I have to be under 900 to slide over to Adv GM.

I guess I'm confused. Do you mean guys who have been Pros and cashed when they were new hotness but now are old and busted have to be rated under 900 to play AM GM?

The 900 rating I don't think would apply to me (even if by some miracle I got my rating that high) because I've never accepted cash. I mean I've never scored low enough to be offered cash, but I've still never accepted cash. :| Basically I thought if you have never been a Pro, they can't force you to play Pro.

 

[Cgkdisc]

I guess I'm confused. Do you mean guys who have been Pros and cashed when they were new hotness but now are old and busted have to be rated under 900 to play AM GM?

The 900 rating I don't think would apply to me (even if by some miracle I got my rating that high) because I've never accepted cash. I mean I've never scored low enough to be offered cash, but I've still never accepted cash. :| Basically I thought if you have never been a Pro, they can't force you to play Pro.

It's a minor problem. It would be uncommon to find an older player without a PDGA number who plays at a pro level for their age who would enter a PDGA event in their Am age division and tear it up. It was just another unusual example of the non-member who might try to take advantage of their non-member status when a similar aged PDGA pro with similar skills would not be able to slide over to their Am age bracket.

 

[philstine]

LOL, dude just move on.... I know you been a member on this site for all of 4 months now and are good and Pro and understand rules better than veteran players. So you will have to forgive guys like myself who post actual facts (pdga rating sheet) instead of screaming opinions (generally wrong) to others...

No, technically there aren't. I was able to play a PDGA Major in 2010, registering as MA1 while still rated as MA4. And Open is just that. Open to anyone who wants to have their a$$ handed to them.

Your first post seems to contradict your second...

As I read it, those minimum suggested ratings only apply to pros, not ams. The am divisions merely have a cap; you might infer that the cap for the next division down implies a minimum, but it doesn't say that.

In case you're keeping score, that's two veteran players who agree with me that there IS no minimum, and none that agree with you. So you'll forgive board members if, going forward, we doubt the veracity of your "actual facts."

 

[Three Putt]

It's a minor problem. It would be uncommon to find an older player without a PDGA number who plays at a pro level for their age who would enter a PDGA event in their Am age division and tear it up. It was just another unusual example of the non-member who might try to take advantage of their non-member status when a similar aged PDGA pro with similar skills would not be able to slide over to their Am age bracket.

Ah, I see.

Really I'm sure there are some 50ish players who are really good that have never joined the PDGA and they could enter a PDGA event in their Am age division and tear it up. I doubt the reason they have held off joining the PDGA is that they have a master plan to slaughter an unsuspecting Am GM field in some future C tier.

 

[PBokor]

I spend an inordinate amount of time throwing with 50'ish players, to my great delight. We aren't looking to conquer any more mountains. 90% of us are just out there to have fun with friends.

 

[Carolina Crushers]

In case you're keeping score, that's two veteran players who agree with me that there IS no minimum, and none that agree with you. So you'll forgive board members if, going forward, we doubt the veracity of your "actual facts."

lol, grow up dude, I posted an actual 2017 sheet from my 2017 PDGA membership. What is your PDGA#???? oh wait, that's right your a typical "complain about sandbaggers and players with egos" according to your original post. But yet, your probally not a PDGA member and have probally never even played in a tournament. If so, then please post......

 

[krupicka]

There are no minimum ratings for Am divisions. Go reread that sheet you posted.

 

[tbonesocrul]

Technically, there are minimum requirements, according to PDGA''s "suggested Minimum ratings" on their Ratings and points factors sheet. However most Non-Pdga members won't know this info.

Requirements or Suggestions??11?!!!1 :\

 

[Carolina Crushers]

Requirements or Suggestions??11?!!!1 :\

Well, depending on what class you play in.....
PRO'S have "suggested Minimum Ratings"
and AM'S have "Ratings Requirements"

all of this is on the PDGA sheet I uploaded.:wall:

 

[Carolina Crushers]