Is "Recreational" misleading?

[Carolina Crushers]

There are no minimum ratings for Am divisions. Go reread that sheet you posted.

For the AM division your right, however the PRO division does have suggested Minimum ratings.... and yes, I understand that people will still choose not to use this info. Technically the PDGA does have "Ratings Requirements" and they also have "Suggested Minimum Ratings" depending on what level of player people are. So people saying well "which one is it?" It can be either depending on if your playing PRO or AM. However, your a PDGA member who seems to play tournaments, so you understand that many players don't go by these suggested guidelines, which is what surpises me personally.

 

[Carolina Crushers]

You've been playing for over 16 years and seem to play in the Rec and Novice division. According to most members on this site you are "sandbagging". Not because you really are....but because for some reason, "everybody who plays disc golf will one day be pro" mentality of this website. Which I think is just crazy.... I have been playing for over 8 years and still struggle with an average of 841 player rating. Which would still land me in the Novice division. I'm not a sandbagger, I'm just not that great at what I love. I know what to do, however with bad knee's and having Diverticulitus I struggle on the course still. If my tone is sounding rude, then I am sorry. I'm just shocked that players would choose to play in a division they can't win, just so people don't call them sandbaggers. Or play in a Division too tough for themselves, that they are referred to as an "ego problem". Throw plastic and have fun!

 

[NegaSnapples]

JoshuaHester, take your L and get on with life. :thmbup:

 

[Future_Primitive]

 

[Carolina Crushers]

JoshuaHester, take your L and get on with life. :thmbup:

NEWBIE, No L here, my point was and still is valid

 

[Three Putt]

You've been playing for over 16 years and seem to play in the Rec and Novice division. According to most members on this site you are "sandbagging". Not because you really are....but because for some reason, "everybody who plays disc golf will one day be pro" mentality of this website. Which I think is just crazy.... I have been playing for over 8 years and still struggle with an average of 841 player rating. Which would still land me in the Novice division. I'm not a sandbagger, I'm just not that great at what I love. I know what to do, however with bad knee's and having Diverticulitus I struggle on the course still. If my tone is sounding rude, then I am sorry. I'm just shocked that players would choose to play in a division they can't win, just so people don't call them sandbaggers. Or play in a Division too tough for themselves, that they are referred to as an "ego problem". Throw plastic and have fun!

The built-in argument is that you will never get better unless you challenge yourself by competing against better players, which "might" be a valid argument depending on who you are and what your goals are. I mean if you are going to dedicate yourself to practice and work on your game a lot, it helps you set a goal of where you want your game to go. If you don't have a bunch of time to practice and really are dedicating yourself to have a fun hobby, it makes no sense to play in a division where you are not competitive just so you can get beat up. It just kinda depends on who you are and what you want to do.

Unfortunately for most of us we play in "one size fits all" events where there are people competing in Open divisions and chuckers getting some exercise and camaraderie on the weekend participating in one event, and people tend to try to impose their priorities onto others.

 

[DavidSauls]

.....and people tend to try to impose their priorities onto others.

That's the Phrase of the Day.

 

[NegaSnapples]

NEWBIE, No L here, my point was and still is valid

That's the second time this thread you've made a comment about how long another user has been registered on this site. Nothing quite as pathetic as a person assigning value to another based on a join date.

But please, get on with your useless and boring ranting about how suggested minimum ratings are the same as required minimum ratings. It's been very enlightening for all of us. :|

 

[tbonesocrul]

my point was and still is valid

I suggest you rethink your argument

 

[Dcinmd]

and people tend to try to impose their priorities onto others.

That is it in a nutshell. I for one am very happy the PDGA is not restrictive. The great thing is that you can have a foursome with four completely different priorities with all of them being equally valid. One wanting to win, other working on his game to move to the next level, the next looking to get off the couch for the afternoon and another looking to show off their shining new discs.

Once it become restrictive you are closing doors to fellow members. Choices are a wonderful thing.

 

[krupicka]

However, your a PDGA member who seems to play tournaments, so you understand that many players don't go by these suggested guidelines, which is what surpises me personally.

Actually I'm a PDGA member who runs a lot more tournaments than I play. Am players playing not playing in the lowest division they qualify for is a regional thing. If you look at many of the tournaments I run, most are playing where their rating puts them or up one division if they want to play on the opposite day from when their division is offered. Of the event I ran this past weekend only two of the 167 Ams were not playing in the lowest division they could for that day.

 

[Three Putt]

Actually I'm a PDGA member who runs a lot more tournaments than I play. Am players playing not playing in the lowest division they qualify for is a regional thing. If you look at many of the tournaments I run, most are playing where their rating puts them or up one division if they want to play on the opposite day from when their division is offered. Of the event I ran this past weekend only two of the 167 Ams were not playing in the lowest division they could for that day.

That's really cool. Are you running IOS events? That is actually a good series from what I understand. As a gross generalization, it has always seemed to be Am friendly. I know a lot of people who really enjoy those events and I have read at least two touring pros throw a hissy fit online about them, so I've always assumed that the people behind IOS know thier target audience well. There seemed to be good ideas there, like the split day/division format. IOS was the first place I noticed that was doing a lot of that. That group has always impressed me as a group that knew what they were doing.

 

[krupicka]

Yes I'm running IOS events. After Bruce came up with Am4 and the PDGA adopted it, I sat down, ran the numbers, and came up with the split day, alternating division format for the IOS. I started running IOS events back in 2010 and have been heading up the series (with Pitner) after the Brakels stepped out in 2012. The events have always been Am friendly and we try to run a very professional event. At the IOS you'll also find perks not found at many other tournaments (e.g. online posting of starting holes for all rounds, publishing hole-by-hole scores for every competitor, etc.). We try to set a high bar for ourselves. It doesn't mean that we always get it right, or that everyone sings our praises.

For some reason the reputation with Pros isn't as good though for even C-tiers we do 100% payout. (If you know where those posts from touring pros are, can you send me a PM with a link to them. I'd be curious what the issues are so that I can try to address them)

 

[dehaas]

Rec should be renamed "on a good day I play at an advanced level, but get pwned in intermediate so I'm playing here till I win one then I'll move up".

Intermediate should be renamed "I play here because it's the largest field and I'm trying to flip my tourney winnings".

Advanced should be renamed "I'm accidentally too good to play intermediate and I don't wanna pay double the entry fee for open to not cash".

 

[Three Putt]

Yes I'm running IOS events. After Bruce came up with Am4 and the PDGA adopted it, I sat down, ran the numbers, and came up with the split day, alternating division format for the IOS. I started running IOS events back in 2010 and have been heading up the series (with Pitner) after the Brakels stepped out in 2012. The events have always been Am friendly and we try to run a very professional event. At the IOS you'll also find perks not found at many other tournaments (e.g. online posting of starting holes for all rounds, publishing hole-by-hole scores for every competitor, etc.). We try to set a high bar for ourselves. It doesn't mean that we always get it right, or that everyone sings our praises.

For some reason the reputation with Pros isn't as good though for even C-tiers we do 100% payout. (If you know where those posts from touring pros are, can you send me a PM with a link to them. I'd be curious what the issues are so that I can try to address them)

I think the basic problem isn't with IOS, it's the "one size fits all" events. As a gross generalization, if the pro payout is packed some Am players might complain that they didn't get a big enough slice of the pie, and if the Am payout is generous some Pro players might complain that they didn't get a big enough slice of the pie. I don't think TD's can worry that much about it. If you advertise 100% payout and deliver 100% payout, you can't worry too much about people who want 200% payout.

 

[Three Putt]

Rec should be renamed "on a good day I play at an advanced level, but get pwned in intermediate so I'm playing here till I win one then I'll move up".

Intermediate should be renamed "I play here because it's the largest field and I'm trying to flip my tourney winnings".

Advanced should be renamed "I'm accidentally too good to play intermediate and I don't wanna pay double the entry fee for open to not cash".

In there someplace is a lot of truth.

I play with people who are all over the place. They throw a 52 on a par 58 course, then turn around and throw a 66 on the same course. We tend to judge them (and they judge themselves) based on the 52. The reality is that over ten rounds on the same course in the same conditions they can easily go 52, 54, 55, 58, 60, 60, 61, 65, 66, 66. That's a player who is a lot more likely to throw a 60 than a 52, but they can throw a 52.

A lot of times the people who play up do it because they convince themselves that they are that -6 golfer they can be on their best day rather than the +2 golfer they are most days. A lot of time the "sandbagger" is the player who realizes that they are really that +2 golfer, but they put it together one time and went 52-55 on tournament day. Perception and reality often don't mix.

 

[Noill]

that's a great point... One that I know well... Yes, I can play decently some times... but, I'm more than likely going to blow-up on a hole and torch my round score

 

[Three Putt]

that's a great point... One that I know well... Yes, I can play decently some times... but, I'm more than likely going to blow-up on a hole and torch my round score

All anybody has to do to derail the Noill game is plant shiny things all over the course. :|

 

[Noill]

There's that... and water... my discs love taking a dip :|

 

[jdw80550]

I think a lot of the lower divisions need to take into account the difficulty of the course the tourney is being held at. Certain a course do not see much separation between rec and intermidate, then you add a course that adds distance, lots of OB, and trees, and all of a sudden you see the gaps begin.