Jussi Situation

[robdeforge]

ok, so why would I need to try to dis/prove anything here? you're baiting really hard to make an argument out of nothing.

edit: damn, someone killed my perfect 5000post/2500nice ratio.

I was asked for my source of information that suggested that Jussi could have bought sex from a trafficked sex worker. I did not (intend to) assert it as fact, but merely point out that there were other possibilities than had been discussed up to that point in the thread.

I'm wondering where your information for suggesting that Jussi bought sex from a non-trafficked sex worker comes from?

 

[Puckstopper]

Buying sex is a bigger deal here in the Nordic countries compared to the US I think, it's not very common here and it's very much frowned upon. Basically it's an action of a male chauvinist pig and in a part of the world where womens rights is further along than basically anywhere else it's not really something you're coming back from.

Personally I won't be buying or throwing a disc from Discmania as long as he's with the company, simple as that.

Totally your call not to buy from them, and I respect your stance. What I'm curious about is your assertion that women's rights are further along in Nordic countries, but that women don't have the right to consent to engage in sex and get paid for it. To me that seems more like the puritanical attitude I'd hear from religious fundementalists as opposed to the "progressive" live and let live attitude I expect from Europe. Really there are valid arguments for both sides and I'm not interested enough to dive down the rabbit hole of them, but your comment just intrigued me.

 

[Shallows]

What I'm curious about is your assertion that women's rights are further along in Nordic countries, but that women don't have the right to consent to engage in sex and get paid for it.

That would only be relevant if men do have the right to engage in sex and get paid for it, which is not the case. It's not a gendered issue at all.

 

[sillybizz]

That would only be relevant if men do have the right to engage in sex and get paid for it, which is not the case. It's not a gendered issue at all.

The numbers of female sex workers FAR outweigh the number of male sex workers, don't act dumb.

 

[wims]

...
What I'm curious about is your assertion that women's rights are further along in Nordic countries, but that women don't have the right to consent to engage in sex and get paid for it.
...

Women (and men for that matter) have the right to consent to engage in sex and get paid for it in the Nordic countries, at least in Norway

 

[VictorB]

I'm wondering where your information for suggesting that Jussi bought sex from a non-trafficked sex worker comes from?

show me the post where I said that. you're very confused

one landfill, please

 

[robdeforge]

show me the post where I said that. you're very confused

one landfill, please

my apologies, that "your" should have been "your guys'" as I am still also responding to others in this thread with my post

I will make it more clear:

I'm wondering where anybody's information suggesting that Jussi bought sex from a non-trafficked sex worker comes from?

 

[Shallows]

The numbers of female sex workers FAR outweigh the number of male sex workers, don't act dumb.

Of course, most professions and activities have an uneven gender split in participation, but both genders have equal rights to access or not access those things.

We all know the reasons why there are more female sex workers than male sex workers. It's not because there is a difference in rights.

There are all sorts of activities that are done primarily by men that are also outlawed.

 

[Golden Tuna]

I will make it more clear:

I'm wondering where anybody's information suggesting that Jussi bought sex from a non-trafficked sex worker comes from?

I think "the other side" of the discussion you're having is waiting for more information before ASSUMING anything.

Seems like casting one stone for infidelity or procurement isn't enough. We have to dam him all the way to hell for getting "the worst type" of sex worker!

Do those who purchase services from sex workers pre-qualify them?

 

[dashiellx]

What I'm curious about is your assertion that women's rights are further along in Nordic countries, but that women don't have the right to consent to engage in sex and get paid for it.

Only socialist sex is legal.

 

[DanJon]

Given that the only legitimate evidence we have is the article that has been posted, we can look to that for context.

The article quoted a local Stockholm police officer (where the incident took place), that the majority of Ukrainian women prostituting themselves in the area are trafficked or controlled by pimps, then that should speak volumes.

Especially since the article specifically states that women in question was Ukrainian.

I believe that sex workers are workers and that they should be allowed control over their bodies and that a private transaction between consenting adults should be allowed, but given the evidence that we know, it doesn't appear that was the case here.

 

[robdeforge]

I think "the other side" of the discussion you're having is waiting for more information before ASSUMING anything.

Seems like casting one stone for infidelity or procurement isn't enough. We have to dam him all the way to hell for getting "the worst type" of sex worker!

Do those who purchase services from sex workers pre-qualify them?

to me, all of the following quotes indicated that they believe the bare bones facts of the story as presented by Jussi to be the truth.

This story interests me about as much as a story about where Trump buys his socks. Which is to say, not at all.

But when I read the post he wrote, my mind immediately understood it to be nipping idle speculation in the bud. These days, no one bothers to check their heads - they just go to town on a twit-storm of accusations and then conjecture of the worst-case-scenario type. In this case, he made sure that didn't happen, at least.

It's bad enough, I guess, but I sure don't judge him for what amounts to a very human mistake.

He's owning up to what he did. My only issue is that it takes away the spotlight from Simon's win. The disc golf world should be talking about Simon's third win this year...but instead, it's all about what Jussi did.

Unbelievable, Simon has his third win in one year when his last win was in 2018 (I think that is when his last win was). Amazing after his arm injury and the distraction of being a father.

"Let he who is without sin, throw the first stone."

Jussi owned up to his mistake/issue/problem/conviction publicly.
He didn't soft-sell it or excuse it or minimize it.

If anything, I admire his candor and owning the responsibility.
For me: Nothing to see here. Move along.

OTOH, he is a public figure and the discussion/debate/moralizing is to be expected and endured.

^^^THIS^^^

To which I will add, "Judge not, lest you also be judged."

I have to wonder how many of those who will condemn him on social media have led perfect lives, never lied, never stolen, never cheated on a spouse/significant other, never stepped on their marker disc and didn't call a foot fault, and so on.

This country amazes me with its condemnation of others. I guess all our houses are mirror-free.

If the answer to "I don't think he procured the services of a trafficked sex worker because Jussi's statement did not address that" then I would totally accept that as reasoning for why these people think that. I am just wondering if there is some other information that I have missed.

 

[gogo]

Fred Garvin male prostitute. https://youtu.be/jphfMd4_LCs

 

[EarthRocker]

Speaking only for myself, I don't have any other data to go on. If he says he did it, and he's sorry for it, all I can deduce from it is that he feels he made a mistake - one that many men have made. And I, for one, don't care what he does with his money or his pecker.

When I say it's "bad enough," I only mean in terms of the troubles he'll now have to deal with as a result of his self-defined "mistake." Not least of which is a whole 14 pages of golfers chewing on some new red meat.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

If Jussi unknowingly solicited a trafficked or unwilling female, the issue is with cracking down on slave trade/sex traffic business in that Sweden.

 

[Golden Tuna]

to me, all of the following quotes indicated that they believe the bare bones facts of the story as presented by Jussi to be the truth.

If the answer to "I don't think he procured the services of a trafficked sex worker because Jussi's statement did not address that" then I would totally accept that as reasoning for why these people think that. I am just wondering if there is some other information that I have missed.

Perhaps I should have spoken more succinctly for myself then...
> the topic overall is not important enough to me to cast judgement on the man, aside from cheating on his wife - still none of my business.
> I don't know enough about the industry to know if he can/did pre-qualify the worker/situation to know this was a trafficking situation.
> I'm not sure how relevant it is (to me) whether the worker was an independent contractor or trafficked.
> SIDE NOTE: I think we can all agree sex trafficking is bad, but I'm not sure that is the discussion we're having. We're talking about a frisbee guy that got caught with his pants down.
> Does the situation become more vile if we learn the worker was trafficked? Perhaps, but does that make Jussi MORE guilty? I'm not sure...

 

[DanJon]

I would agree that steps need to be taken by Swedish authorities/government, but take it step further that customers should be aware of who they are attempting to buy sex from and the circumstances surrounding.

Not only that, but we all know STD rates are much higher amongst sex workers and he's potentially putting his wife's life at risk (even if he uses protection at all times).

Anyway, send it to the fill, apparently people don't care that much and I'm just morally outraged.

 

[Shankapotamus]

I wonder if this might have implications regarding future manufacturer links to Majors in disc golf. Jussi/Discmania and EO were intimately intertwined. Much like Innova and USDGC and this year's WC with DD. Might be something PDGA reconsiders in the future.

This is so unfortunate as Jussi built something very special. Also probably not a good look for the Finnish Entrepreneur of the Year. This will be rough for him and his family: I wish I didn't know about it.

 

[EarthRocker]

I wish I didn't know about it.

THIS!

A million times, THIS.

It sums up my feelings about the Twitter and Instagram world we live in. We don't need to know every little thing about X, Y, or Z, whether it's a person, place, or thing. A little mystery goes a long way...

If we could spend a little less time being outraged to one degree or another, we might be happier for it, yeah? Or is that too obvious?

 

[gogo]

I can guess, much like when he was in charge of media for USDGC and DGWT, there was no live video. So when does the post-pro come out? Will it be on Homez?