Losing interest

[DiscGolfCraig]

I'm losing interest in this thread.

 

[DiscGolfCraig]

I'm losing interest in this thread.

 

[Dingus]

Playing with those who are better than you, will help you improve your game. You can more easily find those folks at leagues and tournaments.

I am genuinely curious, is this proven to be true? How exactly would playing disc golf with better players improve your game?

In some activities like chess you can pick up valuable strategies from playing against better players. In other activities like basketball you cannot improve if you play against people that are far better than you, as you can't even get a shot off. Where does disc golf fit? I would guess if you somehow did a controlled study that there would be no appreciable difference.

The other thing to consider is the habit of winning or losing. If you consistently lose you can make it a habit, where losing is an acceptable outcome and you play down to your expectation. If you consistently win that winning becomes a habit and you tend to keep winning. I wonder how player ratings would change over time for a new player that jumped into open from the start or a new player that progressed through the AM divisions according to their rating. Would the open player internalize losing as a habit and stunt their own development?

 

[Puckstopper]

old thread..but i feel this way now...my throws are fine consistent accurate long...and it is boring....i like playing...I find I like showing off and decided that was lame....i find alot of weird people, tattoed..pudgy..pulling carts high to be annoying..and i dont want to play with them or see them..i was obsessed with my destroyers...i am not anymore...I can play fine with almost anything...but am bored after 4 holes now and usualy go in....i go the skateparks instead...but same deal when the criowds come i go....i sound like a grump but i miss really liking disc golf and new discs

I sympathize with a lot of this. COVID got a lot of people into new hobbies and not all of them "get it" yet. I find myself driving further out of the city to play courses that have fewer people on them and am enjoying myself more. The added drive time is more than compensated for by not having to wait on a group of 8 who want to pound Natty Daddys and smoke White Owls while waiting on the group of 10 ahead of them to finish up. Going further out has let me meet a ton of really nice people who pretty much just want to enjoy a walk, some nature and some peace and quiet as opposed to grumping my way through a round at the course down the street from me.

 

[autocrosscrx]

I am genuinely curious, is this proven to be true? How exactly would playing disc golf with better players improve your game?

In some activities like chess you can pick up valuable strategies from playing against better players. In other activities like basketball you cannot improve if you play against people that are far better than you, as you can't even get a shot off. Where does disc golf fit? I would guess if you somehow did a controlled study that there would be no appreciable difference.

The other thing to consider is the habit of winning or losing. If you consistently lose you can make it a habit, where losing is an acceptable outcome and you play down to your expectation. If you consistently win that winning becomes a habit and you tend to keep winning. I wonder how player ratings would change over time for a new player that jumped into open from the start or a new player that progressed through the AM divisions according to their rating. Would the open player internalize losing as a habit and stunt their own development?

I don't disagree with the premise, but I'm also not sure that playing with guys who are 15-20 years younger than me, 8 inches taller, and 80 lbs heavier is going to inherently give me an extra 100 feet of distance.

 

[Dcinmd]

In other activities like basketball you cannot improve if you play against people that are far better than you, as you can't even get a shot off.

I strongly disagree with this. Back when I was coaching AAU we would routinely play teams that where 15 or 16 years old when our team was only 12.

You will find out really quick which kids are going to step up and which one will fold because they can not get a shot off. More often than not the kids would step up.

You are only going to be as good as your competition.

 

[Hampstead]

I was a one disc wonder for years. My small group of friends was the same way. We had fun, were decent enough, but didn't know what we didn't know. Life got in the way and I quit playing for a few years. When I got back into it, I started playing with people significantly better than me. I realized there was a whole lot more to the game than I was aware of. Disc selection, shaping shots, putting techniques, PDGA rules, etc. Playing with better competition made me a considerably better player and ultimately changed my DG trajectory.

 

[Dingus]

I strongly disagree with this. Back when I was coaching AAU we would routinely play teams that where 15 or 16 years old when our team was only 12.

You will find out really quick which kids are going to step up and which one will fold because they can not get a shot off. More often than not the kids would step up.

You are only going to be as good as your competition.

It isn't an issue of whether you can "step up" or not, it is an issue of whether you can reliably perform the actions you want to get better at. If you cannot get a shot off because your kids are getting blocked every time their shooting will not improve, I don't care how much gumption they have. I also suspect your anecdotal experience involves highly skilled 12 year olds; I doubt if you take the YMCA team with half the squad being first year players they will be playing against teams four years older than them and "stepping up" to the challenge. I also bet you had practices outside of these games against high school kids.

I find the notion of "only being as good as your competition" to be patently untrue. I agree you will not improve by beating on inferior players, you also won't improve by getting beaten on by vastly superior players. The ideal is to play within a reasonable skill level gap, where your players are challenged to win, but not challenged to perform even the basic requirements of the game.

 

[autocrosscrx]

My point is that I HAVE significantly improved and it has made the game less fun. I used to throw driver-driver, then sometimes make a 20 footer for par. And it was exciting. And now I'm throwing driver, then a stock approach shot and a drop in. For the same score. So there isn't really any possibility of a positive outcome. I get the expected outcome or I screw up.

One solution is to play different courses, and I'm trying to do more of that, but that isn't always a possibility due to time constraints.

 

[Three Putt]

My point is that I HAVE significantly improved and it has made the game less fun. I used to throw driver-driver, then sometimes make a 20 footer for par. And it was exciting. And now I'm throwing driver, then a stock approach shot and a drop in. For the same score. So there isn't really any possibility of a positive outcome. I get the expected outcome or I screw up.

One solution is to play different courses, and I'm trying to do more of that, but that isn't always a possibility due to time constraints.

Throw all rollers. :| We play roller doubles; every shot has to be a roller. You can putt, but one of you better hit metal or it's a penalty stroke. It's just an example; there are a lot of things you can do to change up a round if you want to add a challenge.

 

[ballgolfconvert]

My point is that I HAVE significantly improved and it has made the game less fun. I used to throw driver-driver, then sometimes make a 20 footer for par. And it was exciting. And now I'm throwing driver, then a stock approach shot and a drop in. For the same score. So there isn't really any possibility of a positive outcome. I get the expected outcome or I screw up.

One solution is to play different courses, and I'm trying to do more of that, but that isn't always a possibility due to time constraints.

Sounds like you need to play shorter tees. Every course in my area has tees where everyone should have the opportunity for a birdie at some point during a round. If even the shorter tees don't provide birdie opportunities, then you definitely need to hook up with some better players for help throwing it better.

 

[Monocacy]

. . . And now I'm throwing driver, then a stock approach shot and a drop in. For the same score. So there isn't really any possibility of a positive outcome. I get the expected outcome or I screw up.

I get that, but it sounds like a mismatch between your current skill level and the course(s) you are playing. What about throwing just putters or mids to make the course back into a series of 2-shot holes?

Sounds like you need to play shorter tees.

Or longer tees. Whatever turns the hole into multiples of your reasonable throwing distance under the conditions usually makes it more interesting.

 

[ray1970]

I don't disagree with the premise, but I'm also not sure that playing with guys who are 15-20 years younger than me, 8 inches taller, and 80 lbs heavier is going to inherently give me an extra 100 feet of distance.

There are two kids I play with that are half my age, out drive me easily by a solid 150', and are both currently 950 rated.

While playing with them doesn't do anything to make me a physically better player or throw any farther where it does help is it makes me play to the highest level of my physical ability and mentally I can't afford to make any mistakes if I hope to keep up with them on the scorecard. Personally, I love the challenge of trying to play against people better than me and on the rare occasion that I beat them in a round it really boosts my confidence.

 

[autocrosscrx]

I get that, but it sounds like a mismatch between your current skill level and the course(s) you are playing. What about throwing just putters or mids to make the course back into a series of 2-shot holes?



Or longer tees. Whatever turns the hole into multiples of your reasonable throwing distance under the conditions usually makes it more interesting.

They play the shorts at our "Ice Bowl" and I set a goal to match Heather Young's score. She got a +4, but Macie Walker got a +1, so that's the new goal. I get much better weather conditions, but the lines get a lot tighter when everything is green and you lose some distance to ground play as they don't cut the grass very tight or very often. I've gotten to +4 (I don't play this course a ton) and it is fun to chase scores, but the disc golf itself is kind of a grind.

If you care about par, the longs are probably easier to get birdies because instead of playing several 400-450 foot par 3's, you play 450-500 foot par 4's. But I want to get this goal knocked out.

 

[Dthunderchicken]

My point is that I HAVE significantly improved and it has made the game less fun. I used to throw driver-driver, then sometimes make a 20 footer for par. And it was exciting. And now I'm throwing driver, then a stock approach shot and a drop in. For the same score. So there isn't really any possibility of a positive outcome. I get the expected outcome or I screw up.

One solution is to play different courses, and I'm trying to do more of that, but that isn't always a possibility due to time constraints.

I've been there too. Sometimes scores aren't the point. (And since the injuries started to pile up I now suck so badly that scoring is just depressing.) My remedy was to ignore the obvious lines and try to throw something unique.

 

[Dcinmd]

It isn't an issue of whether you can "step up" or not, it is an issue of whether you can reliably perform the actions you want to get better at. If you cannot get a shot off because your kids are getting blocked every time their shooting will not improve, I don't care how much gumption they have. I also suspect your anecdotal experience involves highly skilled 12 year olds; I doubt if you take the YMCA team with half the squad being first year players they will be playing against teams four years older than them and "stepping up" to the challenge. I also bet you had practices outside of these games against high school kids.

I find the notion of "only being as good as your competition" to be patently untrue. I agree you will not improve by beating on inferior players, you also won't improve by getting beaten on by vastly superior players. The ideal is to play within a reasonable skill level gap, where your players are challenged to win, but not challenged to perform even the basic requirements of the game.

You stated it was not possible and I gave a firm example about how it done and then you change the discussion point to fit your narrative. :clap:

And of course you will not improve solely based on your competition. In EVERY sports you have to put the work in to develop your skills if you wish to reach the higher levels.

We are talking about Practice. I am talking about developing people at the the highest level and your talking about boy and girls club level and making sure Johnny gets off the bench for 5 minutes each game.

Apples and Oranges.

 

[zenbot]

I took a little time off. Now I'm back to playing once or more a week and I'm throwing better than ever.

 

[ballgolfconvert]

So many things are like this. Once you know how it ends there's no mystery to it. All I know is take a pause and think about what pursuits have a long arc. I started disc golf in the early 80s and was very casual. When I went off to school, there was no park or place to play. I kept a few discs, but directed my need/enthusiasm for the outdoors into backpacking. That was good as there are all sorts of beautiful places you can't get to in a car. I've done that until I've become ragged, but I still love to get out. The last 15 years it has been a street dog that adopted me, so instead of backpacking, I would take her out on weekend hikes or beach—no 70 lb. packs. Now I come back around to disc golf. It's a nice walk, stretching, body mechanics—plus 40 years of disc/play evolution and the internet.

My point to this ramble is that it is being outside that is the thing. That's primal. Walking on a trail is primal and good for the head. Maybe you don't have to throw a plastic disc to get out. Maybe the constraints of a disc golf park are too limited. Try some weekend hikes. You've got trails, maps, a little food planning—stuff to do to get ready. Take some pictures. After a while you'll learn all the local trails in a 30 minute to hour area around where you live and that will get a bit boring. Maybe back to the disc golf then...

What I used to LOVE about disc golf was the proletariat vibe—no green fees! What I don't care much for now is the league play with the money and competition. It's kinda like the disc golf is a mechanism for small-time betting. Not my bag. Don't let it become an obligation, and don't give up the greatness of getting out. There's always a way until there isn't!

I really enjoy the challenge, the competition and gambling. I like the social aspect as well, but find interacting with the younger guys challenging at any depth.

 

[foxdawg10]

I am genuinely curious, is this proven to be true? How exactly would playing disc golf with better players improve your game?

In some activities like chess you can pick up valuable strategies from playing against better players. In other activities like basketball you cannot improve if you play against people that are far better than you, as you can't even get a shot off. Where does disc golf fit? I would guess if you somehow did a controlled study that there would be no appreciable difference.

The other thing to consider is the habit of winning or losing. If you consistently lose you can make it a habit, where losing is an acceptable outcome and you play down to your expectation. If you consistently win that winning becomes a habit and you tend to keep winning. I wonder how player ratings would change over time for a new player that jumped into open from the start or a new player that progressed through the AM divisions according to their rating. Would the open player internalize losing as a habit and stunt their own development?

It will either make you better or make you worse in my experience. If there is a good vibe and the better players are cool, then you can definitely pick things up. If the better players are hyper competitive D-bags, then you are better off not playing with them.

 

[foxdawg10]

I'm on an injury-imposed break from disc golf and I am finding alot of other things to keep me busy and active. I miss discussing disc golf and the pure joy of a well thrown shot or putt - either during a league night or just out practicing it doesn't matter. I honestly don't miss the long full day of tournaments much. Not a knock on the TD's or the volunteers who work hard at organizing the sport, just a personal preference. I miss the social aspect when I have been able to find good amicable cards, I don't miss having to spend 3 hours with the over competitive guy. There used to be the old axiom that you play against the course, not against your cardmates and that is how I like to play the game.

In my mid 50's I was able to get my putting to be as strong as it has ever been, maybe stronger, and was able to throw as far and accurate as I did when playing in my 30's. I also worked my way up to 950 rating, which I was more than happy with. Considering I never really wanted to play tournies much when I picked up the game again 6 years ago after a 15 year lay off, I consider that a big success.

Hopefully when I recover from the injury I can pick up playing again, and focus on what I enjoy about the game, and not get caught up in someone else's idea of fun. If not I always have other options and I am sure I will keep up with those anyway when I start playing again.