Maple Hill Open

[blackcatsmith]

Not that this discussion doesn't have it's time and place, but I don't see how Ricky's throw is good cause for it. One of, if not the best forehands in the game gets a bad kick and a very bad roll to boot on what happens to be the deciding hole. Had this happened at any other hole prior, it would be looked on as just as a good shot resulting in a bad break. He put one in from around 250'(!) to save a 3 with a forehand earlier in the round. I'm just saying... Sometimes you get the bear, and sometimes the bear gets you.
Regardless, this made for some fantastic spectating.

 

[coupe]

I guarantee if he laid up and lost in the playoff he'd be kicking himself for being a pansy boy.

Along with everyone else, including Menacewarf.

 

[jvphobic]

SmashboxxTV Update

Hey guys, thanks for all the kind words. I just want to address a couple of things in order of how they happened.

Thursday: I felt that the day 1 coverage was pretty good.

Friday: Holy crap was I surprised at how well we held up in that rain. We covered and wrapped everything up so as to avoid the rain. The only thing I was not a fan of was the occasional plastic in the shot. We tried to tape it down better, but the rain and wind wouldn't cooperate with us.

Saturday: Ever seen a grown man cry? Well, I was on the verge. I was in the Sap house and we had a major issue with the onsite Charter connection to the building. We think it might have been due to the hurricane that blew through the day before. But not like Charter would tell us anything. So instead I pulled a Verizon card from the backpack and we ate through about 1 gig of data every 30 minutes or so. $$$$ That bill will NOT be pretty.

Then when they were prepping the players buffet, they blew the fuse in the building and completely shut us down. This abrupt ending corrupted my onsite backup. Then to find out that it also corrupted the YouTube stream somehow giving us a dreaded "green screen". Now, we COULD cut together all the shots on the local camera... but I don't know if we will take the time. There is another copy of that round out there, but without the good commentary.

Sunday: Charter got their act together and we had a very solid internet connection at the Sap house again. Sunday was a pretty great day and I thought that the coverage was good.

I hope that everyone enjoyed being able to watch when you could. It was our pleasure to bring you that fantastic event.

Overall, I am considering this event a success.

PS. No WAY Ricky should have laid up.

 

[DangeRuss]

This looks like a job for....Captain Hindsight!

 

[BirdieMachine]

I agree that the percentage play here wasn't that clear. Laying up may or may not have been the smartest play at the time, but it probably would have been the wrong play for Wysocki at that moment, because as someone else said, the shot itself was relatively straightforward, so laying up meant doubting a standard forehand. If that had been his mentality, he could as easily cheesed the layup shot. I think he probably made the right call for him, even though it didn't work out to put it mildly.

That being said, "go for it all the time every time" sounds like what someone who's never played with a lead says. Winners don't always go high risk. That's what casual chuckers do. Just sayin'.

I completely agree but the shot was not high risk. He threw it a bit poorly (for him) and it still should have been parked. He got unlucky to have it roll back OB. Simply put the odds heavily favored him going for it. It was a shot he should make 75% of the time. Take those odds and go for it.

 

[Toro71]

I completely agree but the shot was not high risk. He threw it a bit poorly (for him) and it still should have been parked. He got unlucky to have it roll back OB. Simply put the odds heavily favored him going for it. It was a shot he should make 75% of the time. Take those odds and go for it.

I agree that in this case, he made the right call. Or, actually, the only call. I don't see where a layup shot would've even entered his mind here.

 

[Jlee]

This looks like a job for....Captain Hindsight!

This. Layup was not even an option

 

[wkelly42]

Until I watched Marty's coverage last night, I was thinking layup. Then I saw where Ricky was -- no way you lay up from there. That's a high percentage shot that you have to take, especially when it's for the tournament.

Of course, you can look at the rest of the round and see shots that were dropped that shouldn't have been. Ricky took a chance, and probability bit him in the butt. You take the loss and move on.

 

[spicybird6]

So you guys are pretty much saying:

If a teams makes a 2 and ties it up in basketball, you only have a few seconds to go..... Would you always go for the winning 3pt shot instead of 2 pointer and tie it?

opcorn:

 

[paulw]

If anyone's addressed the design of the green, sorry I missed it -- I understand wanting an island green on the last basket, but it seems like the peninsula of the rock walls would be enough, no?

I know -- it's not my course and Dodge can do whatever he wants, he's right and I realize that the OB was there for everyone . .. but, what if the string's not there, is the basket better?

Ricky, even with the unfortunate roll most likely makes his three for the win, worse case gets his four for the push.

I'm a low rating guy that is enjoying the youtube age of disc golf tourneys on line and Koling makes tons of videos. My hope is this win clams him down and stops his incessant whining. Every once and while -- who cares, but bad throw after bad putt watching his shock and horror when he hits a tree or misses a putt as if something just fell from the sky and made him suck . . . it gets a little old.

Just saying.

 

[JC17393]

So you guys are pretty much saying:

If a teams makes a 2 and ties it up in basketball, you only have a few seconds to go..... Would you always go for the winning 3pt shot instead of 2 pointer and tie it?

opcorn:

Well, if you tie the basketball game, it's not sudden death in overtime. So the calculus involved is different. In basketball, you take the highest percentage shot available. A two-pointer is more often than not a better percentage make than a three-pointer (unless you're talking a forced two through a double team or something compared to an open, uncontested three), so you try to get the two and win it in overtime.

When the choice is play for the tie and go to sudden death where one mistake ends it, playing for the win right there becomes more appealing. When the shot required to play for the win is one that that plays to the thrower's strength, that makes it even more appealing. It's hard to question Ricky's decision in the moment given the prospect of playing hole 1 next, which is fraught with danger of its own. Easy to play woulda-coulda-shoulda after the fact, though.

 

[blackcatsmith]

Now there's a backhand shot.

 

[bradharris]

If anyone's addressed the design of the green, sorry I missed it -- I understand wanting an island green on the last basket, but it seems like the peninsula of the rock walls would be enough, no?

I know -- it's not my course and Dodge can do whatever he wants, he's right and I realize that the OB was there for everyone . .. but, what if the string's not there, is the basket better?

There are two reasons why I think the island is better.

1. It adds an element of risk and excitement to the final hole. It also makes it much more spectator friendly where the largest gallery is gathered.

2. It is more natural given the landscape. The main fairway is bounded by a rock wall already. Trying to make the green a peninsula means running ropes across from the green to some arbitrary points in the middle of the two walls.

 

[paulw]

Can't you just extend the rock wall is the green with a string straight to the wall bordering the fairway? Doesn't seem too "arbitrary". The other side, meh, may be arbitrary.

None of this would effect the gallery in any way . . ?? Right?

 

[bradharris]

Can't you just extend the rock wall is the green with a string straight to the wall bordering the fairway? Doesn't seem too "arbitrary". The other side, meh, may be arbitrary.

None of this would effect the gallery in any way . . ?? Right?

If you extend the far wall in a straight line it'll run into the pro shop. What you're trying to do is extend an island green onto the corner of a square. It makes the design awkward and less exciting. And you'll still have an OB line to contend with that can also be subject to unlucky bounces.

Have you seen this hole in person? When you see it live, especially in play, it makes perfect sense.

 

[JC17393]

Can't you just extend the rock wall is the green with a string straight to the wall bordering the fairway? Doesn't seem too "arbitrary". The other side, meh, may be arbitrary.

None of this would effect the gallery in any way . . ?? Right?

Not sure how connecting the green to the fairway as a peninsula instead of an island changes how it plays all that much. I mean, the piece of OB that you'd be converting to inbounds to make it a peninsua is probably 30-40 feet wide (the width of the green basically) and only about 10-12 feet across. I think just as many approaches would still end up OB outside of the walls and that neck.

That "river" of OB is there because it's an access road/path. Stringing rope across it to "connect" the fairway and green would be roping off that access road, making it difficult to walk through or drive their equipment through. The thing to keep in mind is the ropes that mark the OB lines now are not just there for the tournament, those are there year-round. You can go to Maple Hill in April or October and still play the exact same layout as these guys do for the MHO. As opposed to the ropes at Winthrop Gold for the USDGC, which are only up for a week or two before the tournament and come back down immediately following it.

 

[Emoney]

Agree to disagree. You can keep saying that shot is easy but he lost the touney on it now twice, and won the tourney on it 0. Never even a push.

He didnt lose the tourney on "that one shot". I believe it was like a 3day tourney, he put himself in position and took the best chance to win.

 

[paulw]

If you extend the far wall in a straight line it'll run into the pro shop. What you're trying to do is extend an island green onto the corner of a square. It makes the design awkward and less exciting. And you'll still have an OB line to contend with that can also be subject to unlucky bounces.

Have you seen this hole in person? When you see it live, especially in play, it makes perfect sense.

Yes -- I've seen it. Again, whatever Dodge says goes, I don't really think Ricky's bounce was unlucky -- he threw a bad throw -- the wall was there before he threw it, just kind of playing devil's advocate.

I would like the peninsula better not because no one would go out bounds but because I'm not a fan of the drop zone for a shot like Ricky's, just let him putt it. If you miss the peninsula, the drop zone makes more sense.

 

[bradharris]

Yes -- I've seen it. Again, whatever Dodge says goes, I don't really think Ricky's bounce was unlucky -- he threw a bad throw -- the wall was there before he threw it, just kind of playing devil's advocate.

I would like the peninsula better not because no one would go out bounds but because I'm not a fan of the drop zone for a shot like Ricky's, just let him putt it. If you miss the peninsula, the drop zone makes more sense.

The drop zone is necessary not because of the island, but because of how close the OB walls are to the pin. Without a DZ, you're putting from a meter in from where it went OB which is a very easy putt. The one stroke penalty you take from going OB is likely no different than if you had to try to hit a long putt from wherever you actually landed.

The drop zone forces you to still hit a tough shot after the penalty is applied.

Again, this adds an extra element of risk and excitement to the hole.

 

[sprintermatt]

one of the hardest greens in disc golf. Used to be harder when the entire fairway was trees. I'm a little miffed at how generous they've made the landing zone off the tee. Used to force you into playing short and throwing a longer upshot or throwing long and contending with the trees. Now you just drive with abandon and throw your approach from wherever... sorta sucks. The limited views and odd footing made the older version MUCH more challenging.

Coming in from the right side is hard though. You have trees forcing you left, and the walls are basically going to get hit if want to be on the green.