Max Distance Needed To Be 1000 Rated?

[Putt for D'oh]

What happens if we switch the OP question around to the Happy Gilmore Award... What is the furthest you can throw without being 1000 rated? I can name quite a few guys in the 200 meter club.

Well this question actually makes all of Lyloross' posts relevant to the discussion.

 

[sidewinder22]

Exactly, so you need to set aside the shared components and look at the differences. If you're telling me that a pull through on a disc is the same as a club swing, I'm gonna disagree. BTW, even the mechanics of leg movement are pretty different. I've yet to see a ball golfer take an X step run up and open his hips up the opposite way than is done in golf, which is what we do in disc golf.

The only real difference between a ball golf swing and a disc golf swing is it's a two-handed swing vs one-handed swing. The swing center is different because of the different number of hands, but the mechanics are dynamically the same, and usually a more upright flatter swing plane in disc golf - imagine hitting a ball tee'd up belt high with one-hand. Same thing with a baseball swing, swing or throw bat one-handed.

 

[slowplastic]

Exactly, so you need to set aside the shared components and look at the differences. If you're telling me that a pull through on a disc is the same as a club swing, I'm gonna disagree. BTW, even the mechanics of leg movement are pretty different. I've yet to see a ball golfer take an X step run up and open his hips up the opposite way than is done in golf, which is what we do in disc golf.

How far do you throw? I think you haven't felt "it". It's basically the same.

Look at Feldberg, his throw is a golf swing with only the top hand.

Edit: SW beat me to the video.

 

[bnbanbury]

As an aside, even in golf, the notion that distance without accuracy somehow wins, is too much to believe. Accuracy, and consistency along with that distance has to be a given.

Literally no one is saying that. No one is saying that you can have distance without accuracy and be a 1000 rated player.

To be clear: you have to be a good putter, throw good upshots, throw far, and be accurate to be a 1000 rated player. But the factor that most determines your ceiling as a golfer is distance.

This is evidenced by the fact that everyone is trying to produce golfers who can't throw 400' and are still 1000 rated guys and its really, really hard to find them. Distance is the most common factor among 1000 rated players and that is not coincidental. It makes perfect sense.

If I make 10% less putts in the circle than the next guy but outdistance him by 50' and we are both accurate, I get more looks than he does so I can miss more putts and still beat him.

 

[Shamis]

I've seen Erik throw 400' on the course. Maybe he gained some distance but dropped in rating?

What happens if we switch the OP question around to the Happy Gilmore Award... What is the furthest you can throw without being 1000 rated? I can name quite a few guys in the 200 meter club.

I definitely know 3 guys throwing 500, none of which have cracked 950 rating yet

 

[shyguy30]

I don't understand how concrete knowledge of people that achieved a rating of 1000 while throwing less than 400' and the assumption that it is impossible can co-exist in people's minds. If someone has achieved it as recently as 2 years ago, I think it is fair to say it can be done. The OP never asked about the likelihood of the achievement; just the possibility of it.

By the way, in the 2018 Las Vegas Challenge cited in the article, 49 players in the Open division averaged over a 1000-rated round over all 4 rounds. So it doesn't take "elite distance" to rate as a 1000-rated player, unless of course those happen to be the 49 players that throw the furthest in the entire world. Highly unlikely. No one is saying distance is not incredibly important; it is. But there seems to be a level of pride once folks reach 400-450' of distance that says no one can be any good if they don't throw that far. Unfortunately that is not something I have to worry about.

 

[bnbanbury]

I don't understand how concrete knowledge of people that achieved a rating of 1000 while throwing less than 400' and the assumption that it is impossible can co-exist in people's minds. If someone has achieved it as recently as 2 years ago, I think it is fair to say it can be done. The OP never asked about the likelihood of the achievement; just the possibility of it.

By the way, in the 2018 Las Vegas Challenge cited in the article, 49 players in the Open division averaged over a 1000-rated round over all 4 rounds. So it doesn't take "elite distance" to rate as a 1000-rated player, unless of course those happen to be the 49 players that throw the furthest in the entire world. Highly unlikely. No one is saying distance is not incredibly important; it is. But there seems to be a level of pride once folks reach 400-450' of distance that says no one can be any good if they don't throw that far. Unfortunately that is not something I have to worry about.

As noted in previous posts, its not impossible it is extremely unlikely and the few examples are statistical outliers.

This has nothing to do with an some elitist view of distance or pride. It is a realistic representation of how difficult it is to achieve that rating without a certain power threshold. Your example of the LV challenge actually reinforces this point. Not only do all of those guys have 400+ feet of power, looking down the list of names there are guys outside the top 100 that throw that far.

 

[slowplastic]

As noted in previous posts, its not impossible it is extremely unlikely and the few examples are statistical outliers.

Yep, what is the more likely route to 1000....learning to throw 400+ and having a decent all around game like many people have, or being literally the world's best putter like Yeti while still being extremely accurate with the rest of your game?

And again, there is a huge difference between throwing a 1000 rated round here or there, and someone who is 1000 rated without cherry picking courses.

 

[DavidSauls]

As noted in previous posts, its not impossible it is extremely unlikely and the few examples are statistical outliers.
.

But wasn't that the original question? Not what is likely, but what is possible?

 

[bnbanbury]

But wasn't that the original question? Not what is likely, but what is possible?

Not really, the OP says whats the magic number and then asks are there any 350 max d players. People in this thread are using 350 and 400 interchangeably and there is a BIG difference. I still see no evidence of a 350' max D player being 1000 rated. I concede that there may be some people between 350 and 400 that have reached that milestone having world class short games.

 

[slowplastic]

But wasn't that the original question? Not what is likely, but what is possible?

I believe it was both...what distance is "needed" to be 1000 rated, as well as if there are any examples of short throwing players who are 1000 rated. That's likely the source of a lot of the argument.

 

[ThrowBot]

I'd say that the original question was too vague to render meaningful answers that are both technically "correct" and realistic/reasonable. The problem is that there are so many other factors that go into playing 1000-rated disc golf. Any answer is based on other assumptions (putting, course selection, placement/accuracy, etc.) Those assumptions that support the "minimum distance" are more important than the distance figure itself.

It's possible to imagine a hypothetical player who can't even throw 260', but plays only pitch-and-putts and aces everything within 250'. Great work, the answer is 250 feet! But that thought experiment is meaningless in the real world. Its only real use is to rhetorically defend a ludicrous answer to a vague question.

Realistically, I could imagine a 1000-rated player who maxes out at 400', has consistent placement on a variety of lines at 350', and putts pretty dang well. Any less power than that would strain my personal credulity.

In response to contrary examples, I'd ask: Are you really talking about the player's MAX distance? Or the distance that they regularly throw/threw on the course with good control and placement?

 

[DavidSauls]

I also rather assumed those numbers were thresholds---that 400' didn't mean 400' and no more, it just meant 400', but not 450'. So the guy who drives 430', maybe 440', still falls in the 400' category.

If you read those differently, then sure, it's harder to see a 350' (max) guy doing it than a 350' (but not 400') guy doing it.

 

[DavidSauls]

It's possible to imagine a hypothetical player who can't even throw 260', but plays only pitch-and-putts and aces everything within 250'. Great work, the answer is 250 feet! But that thought experiment is meaningless in the real world. Its only real use is to rhetorically defend a ludicrous answer to a vague question.

Myself, I was only imagining a hypothetical player who lived in an region of short and/or wooded heavily wooded courses, and who plays the local or regional tournament scene but doesn't travel. Because I've known players like that who, if they didn't reach 1000, they flirted with it, but were hardly known more than 200 miles from home.

 

[DavidSauls]

But I did read it as, practically speaking, what is the lower distance range of the 1000-rated players. At what point do some players overcome their lack of distance (relative to other 1000-rated players) with enough better consistency and control to hang with them?

 

[mullethead326]

So here's Joe Mela. Multi-time world champ. Rated 1000 as recently as July 2016. Currently rated 991. I would be mildly shocked if he had air distance of more than 350 on flat ground with no wind. His stable distance driver is a Roadrunner. His main driver is a Mamba. He still throws 86 Softies. Joe gets by with super technical lines and excellent putting and approaches. He's also 56, so it's unlikely that his rating will improve--but I think it's pretty fair to say that there is a tactile example of a player being 1000+ in the very recent past without 350 distance (and certainly not straight line distance).

 

[Cgkdisc]

Joey had/has 400+ rolling distance.

 

[slowplastic]

So here's Joe Mela. Multi-time world champ. Rated 1000 as recently as July 2016. Currently rated 991. I would be mildly shocked if he had air distance of more than 350 on flat ground with no wind. His stable distance driver is a Roadrunner. His main driver is a Mamba. He still throws 86 Softies. Joe gets by with super technical lines and excellent putting and approaches. He's also 56, so it's unlikely that his rating will improve--but I think it's pretty fair to say that there is a tactile example of a player being 1000+ in the very recent past without 350 distance (and certainly not straight line distance).

This is him at 18:40 in the red shirt, lefty. You sure he only throws 350? This is my first exposure to him, but this seems like a pretty long and easy shot with clean form. Either way, experience and consistency will definitely get you that rating.

https://youtu.be/LpJFI9Fg-vE?t=1118

 

[araytx]

When I think of elite players who got there with skills other than elite distance, Leiviska comes to mind. His throw is so compact and smooth and accurate, and that compensates. Just from videos I'm guessing he throws 400-450 or so? Not sure. But if you can get to 1030+ without throwing over 450, then I think it could be possible to get to 1000 without throwing over 400.

I think it's a bit off-base to say Cale maxes between 400-450. I believe I've personally seen him throwing over 450'

I don't know what stats you are remembering, but here are some things to consider.


For a hole that is within their range, most players will land short. The disc also doesn't always land exactly on the line from tee to target. The best data I have is that the median distance from the target would be 95 feet. So, yes, only a fraction of 1000-rated players will get a 2 on a 400 foot hole.

I have scores for 1000-rated players for 34 holes that are 390-410 feet in length. On those holes, 15% got 2s and the average score was 3.2.

One clear point to be made. On those holes I am going to postulate that the people who can throw 450'+ are going to deuce that hole much more often than guys who top out right aroun 410-425 the hole distance. Simply because those who can throw 450'+ can choose a pure hyzer or spike at that hole, thereby increasing accuracy.

I'd say that the original question was too vague to render meaningful answers that are both technically "correct" and realistic/reasonable. The problem is that there are so many other factors that go into playing 1000-rated disc golf. Any answer is based on other assumptions (putting, course selection, placement/accuracy, etc.) Those assumptions that support the "minimum distance" are more important than the distance figure itself.

It's possible to imagine a hypothetical player who can't even throw 260', but plays only pitch-and-putts and aces everything within 250'. Great work, the answer is 250 feet! But that thought experiment is meaningless in the real world. Its only real use is to rhetorically defend a ludicrous answer to a vague question.

Realistically, I could imagine a 1000-rated player who maxes out at 400', has consistent placement on a variety of lines at 350', and putts pretty dang well. Any less power than that would strain my personal credulity.

In response to contrary examples, I'd ask: Are you really talking about the player's MAX distance? Or the distance that they regularly throw/threw on the course with good control and placement?

Exactly. The original poll was not worded well, especially given that I know the OP, and know the discussion he & I were having. That's why I suggested a different question in post #94

 

[sidewinder22]

A better question to answer would be what do you think is the max D of the vast majority of 1000+-rated pros today? ... And by vast majority, I mean 75% or more.

Exactly. The original poll was not worded well, especially given that I know the OP, and know the discussion he & I were having. That's why I suggested a different question in post #94

That is an entirely different question and answer. I'd say that's 450'+.