National Tour folds into DGPT

[EllEstar]

Potential for a contingent of U.S. players to do a month long Euro tour from late June to late July and hit Nokia Open, Alutaguse Open, PCS Sula Open, and European Open on 4 successive weekends. This would mean skipping DGPT Preserve, Idlewild, and potentially DGLO. Plus USWDGC for the FPO field might keep some in the U.S. and not go to Europe at all. Where is the Tyyni if its not on the Euro Tour? Is AM Worlds vending going to draw away some of the top pros from The Preserve?

---

It's probably going to go:

June 23rd ET#6 Nokia Open
July 1st ET#7 Alutaguse Open
July 8th EPT#4 Tyyni Open
July 13th ET#8 PCS Sula Open
July 21st European Open
July 29th ET#5 Estonian Open

The bolded ones are confirmed, the unbolded are guesses based on the estimated schedule for the new European Pro Tour. Turku Open might even be early August adding another event only 1 or 2 weeks later.

USWDGC will probably force most women to miss out on the first two, but with (likely) 4 big events in 4 weeks after that, including a major, we might see a large contingent of FPO come over as well.

 

[Three Putt]

It's probably going to go:

June 23rd ET#6 Nokia Open
July 1st ET#7 Alutaguse Open
July 8th EPT#4 Tyyni Open
July 13th ET#8 PCS Sula Open
July 21st European Open
July 29th ET#5 Estonian Open

The bolded ones are confirmed, the unbolded are guesses based on the estimated schedule for the new European Pro Tour. Turku Open might even be early August adding another event only 1 or 2 weeks later.

USWDGC will probably force most women to miss out on the first two, but with (likely) 4 big events in 4 weeks after that, including a major, we might see a large contingent of FPO come over as well.

Tell us more about this new European Pro Tour.

 

[adb83]

Tell us more about this new European Pro Tour.

https://europeanprotour.com

 

[@CD-]

Yeah, that month of July will likely be drawing away most of the top MPO & FPO players sponsored by each manufacturer/brand over to Europe. DGPT events will be ripe for someone new or the top remaining players to take down. With Japan Open earlier (overlapping the OTB open) it'll be a much more diverse tour schedule than the past 2 years for everyone. Some decisions to be made (max out DGPT points/travel west/overseas) that will spread the field out a bit more. Good luck getting many touring pros to anything off the Majors/DGPT/Euro schedule.

I guess the EPT is taking over for the Prodigy tour over there? Guess I missed that gap weekend on the 8th but the Tyyni fits in nicely.

 

[Three Putt]

https://europeanprotour.com

I mean I saw that. I like how it says "European Pro Tour and the professional teams and organizers behind it, is brought together by the well-known Finnish Disc Golf company, NBDG" with NBDG being a link that takes you to a page not found.

So I don't know anything about NBDG (other than it being Natural Born Disc Golfer) and I've never heard of Mikko Wikman so I thought someone could add something to my general lack of knowledge there.

 

[_MTL_]

The PDGA posted a new position yesterday, the Director of Competition.

In that job description has someone who is fully focused on majors, competition and fundraising.

The thing that stood out to me the most was that the position will have site visits before bids are awarded. This is a HUGE shift. In the past, site visits occurred after bids.

When you merge the announcement of this position with the fact that the PDGA is stepping away from the week to week tour, it's pretty clear to me that the PDGA is making a shift in their strategy.

It's all really positive stuff.

 

[mattw]

It's probably going to go:

June 23rd ET#6 Nokia Open
July 1st ET#7 Alutaguse Open
July 8th EPT#4 Tyyni Open
July 13th ET#8 PCS Sula Open
July 21st European Open
July 29th ET#5 Estonian Open

The bolded ones are confirmed, the unbolded are guesses based on the estimated schedule for the new European Pro Tour. Turku Open might even be early August adding another event only 1 or 2 weeks later.

USWDGC will probably force most women to miss out on the first two, but with (likely) 4 big events in 4 weeks after that, including a major, we might see a large contingent of FPO come over as well.

One issue with an extended US player swing in Europe could be the points that are earned towards the end of year championship. With only the one European tournament listed on the US schedule I would think that is the only event they could earn points for.

 

[Three Putt]

One issue with an extended US player swing in Europe could be the points that are earned towards the end of year championship. With only the one European tournament listed on the US schedule I would think that is the only event they could earn points for.

I mean it might seem like a nice thing to do, but if I'm running a business and that business is running a disc golf tour I'm not shutting down for a month to let my best players take off and go play for somebody else. If I'm running the DGPT, no way I'm making my schedule accommodating for players to go play for somebody else. As a fan you might want it, but DGPT is a business and from a business point of view it makes no sense.

 

[mattw]

I mean it might seem like a nice thing to do, but if I'm running a business and that business is running a disc golf tour I'm not shutting down for a month to let my best players take off and go play for somebody else. If I'm running the DGPT, no way I'm making my schedule accommodating for players to go play for somebody else. As a fan you might want it, but DGPT is a business and from a business point of view it makes no sense.

That would be my line of thinking from a business standpoint. In golf the Euro tour added guidelines requiring that they play in a certain number of tournaments each year in order to retain there tour card. They didn't want the top players constantly going to the US on tour exemptions to play golf. It hurt the ratings and sponsorship money.

 

[dehaas]

The PDGA posted a new position yesterday, the Director of Competition.

In that job description has someone who is fully focused on majors, competition and fundraising.

The thing that stood out to me the most was that the position will have site visits before bids are awarded. This is a HUGE shift. In the past, site visits occurred after bids.

When you merge the announcement of this position with the fact that the PDGA is stepping away from the week to week tour, it's pretty clear to me that the PDGA is making a shift in their strategy.

It's all really positive stuff.

I don't know if you can speak to it or not, or even if it has been decided on yet as part of the PDGA/DGPT agreement. It sounds like PDGA majors will still exist and go through a bid process every year? So going forward those events are considered majors, but is there anything on the PDGA side that will make them relevant for players aside from them probably having a heavier weighted point value on the DGPT scale? Is the position you mentioned meant to be one in cooperation with DGPT as part of the agreement: in other words the PDGA has somebody they will be using to help "vet" potential host locations ahead of time? I would expect the current process of bidding to host Worlds will pretty much remain the same?

Not asking with the intent to gripe or nit pick. I think we all agree this is a smart move, and looking for a bit of insight on how things will look down the road.

 

[Three Putt]

It seems like one of those "what do people assume we do/what we actually do" situations. I think most people assume the PDGA had more money/resources and had a team scouting all the locations in advance of the bids, but for the most part I think people historically have assumed the PDGA is a lot bigger/better funded/more professional than it really is. I can totally see the PDGA still having an old-school process where your assessment of the site is word of mouth from locals and the PDGA doesn't send an official representative until after the bid is given, so if there are huge red-flag issues on the site visit you are kinda already in that boat and hope the hosts can fix it before the event date. They have had a huge surge in membership so now maybe they finally have enough resources to send one guy out to scout these sites. That's a big step forward.

 

[@CD-]

With 2 more DGPT stops (DDO & Texas States) next year they could alter their points structure from top 8 (2/3rds of 12, drop up to 4) finishes to top 9 (2/3rds of 14, drop up to 5) or leave it at 8 which allows for dropping up to 6. I don't expect any of the PDGA Majors will count toward DGPT standings but some of the Europe stops may be treated like Silver Series according to the DGPT announcement. Masters Cup and BSF both are confirmed Silver Series with Music City potentially joining.

Could see these 5 being the least entered (by player choice) of the DGPT:

• Idlewild
• Preserve
• DGLO
• OTB Open
• Vegas

One other wrinkle mentioned in the DGPT announcement will limit the last 2 DGPT event fields

A new addition to the DGPT schedule is a playoff format for the final two events, the Green Mountain Championship, and the MVP Open at Maple Hill. While final details will be announced, these events will stay normal stroke play events but see the field sizes reduced as the Tour blazes a path to the DGPT Championship. "I expect the men's field to be cut down to around 100 for the GMC and 80 when we get to Maple Hill, and the women's field to go from 50 to 40." Said Spring.

 

[Cgkdisc]

With regard to vetting sites, Brian Hoeniger (former Exec Director), Houck and I got started doing visits before awarding Am and Pro Worlds bids around 2002 although in many cases there were only one or two sites to visit. (Biscoe might remember our visit to Virginia Beach). In addition, sites that received the bid were to run test events on the courses prior to Worlds. Another challenge was that usually a course or two that was planned to be used was not yet in the ground to determine its suitability.

This pre-bid-award process faded away sometime after 2011ish, primarily due to the few places bidding, especially for Pro Worlds, were already well-known sites of big A-tiers and NTs with solid leadership and club support. Reviewing the final configurations of courses several months or more before Worlds has mostly continued to my knowledge. MTL might remember me walking or playing the 14 courses planned for the 2012 Charlotte Worlds over 3 action packed days with Sam, Bill and Stan. Shawn Sinclair has done most, maybe all of the pre-Worlds reviews the past 5-6 years.

 

[mattw]

With 2 more DGPT stops (DDO & Texas States) next year they could alter their points structure from top 8 (2/3rds of 12, drop up to 4) finishes to top 9 (2/3rds of 14, drop up to 5) or leave it at 8 which allows for dropping up to 6. I don't expect any of the PDGA Majors will count toward DGPT standings but some of the Europe stops may be treated like Silver Series according to the DGPT announcement. Masters Cup and BSF both are confirmed Silver Series with Music City potentially joining.

Could see these 5 being the least entered (by player choice) of the DGPT:

• Idlewild
• Preserve
• DGLO
• OTB Open
• Vegas

One other wrinkle mentioned in the DGPT announcement will limit the last 2 DGPT event fields

I don't disagree that it is possible. However I agree with three putt I don't see how this would be financially in there best interest to have top tier talent playing on another tour. At the end of the day the DGPT is looking to grow the US tour in hopes of getting bigger sponsors for larger profits. In order for that to happen they need the top talent to stay stateside. If the Euro wasn't a major they probably wouldn't even have that event on tour. It's all speculation at this point and I'm sure more information will be released in the coming months.

 

[_MTL_]

With regard to vetting sites, Brian Hoeniger (former Exec Director), Houck and I got started doing visits before awarding Am and Pro Worlds bids around 2002 although in many cases there were only one or two sites to visit. (Biscoe might remember our visit to Virginia Beach). In addition, sites that received the bid were to run test events on the courses prior to Worlds. Another challenge was that usually a course or two that was planned to be used was not yet in the ground to determine its suitability.

This pre-bid-award process faded away sometime after 2011ish, primarily due to the few places bidding, especially for Pro Worlds, were already well-known sites of big A-tiers and NTs with solid leadership and club support. Reviewing the final configurations of courses several months or more before Worlds has mostly continued to my knowledge. MTL might remember me walking or playing the 14 courses planned for the 2012 Charlotte Worlds over 3 action packed days with Sam, Bill and Stan. Shawn Sinclair has done most, maybe all of the pre-Worlds reviews the past 5-6 years.

The practice of reviewing sites between bid and event still occurs. I've personally done them all three times (once with you, Chuck) for the two majors I've run and the upcoming one.

The change here is, according to this job description, reviewing the courses prior to the big being accepted. That is a subtle but very important (and frankly, critical) change.

 

[Cgkdisc]

The change here is, according to this job description, reviewing the courses prior to the big being accepted. That is a subtle but very important (and frankly, critical) change.

I agree. Was just pointing out it's a return to the practice started in the first decade of 2000, not completely new. Having a bigger budget for travel and a person responsible makes it feasible again.

 

[EllEstar]

Tell us more about this new European Pro Tour.

Well, it's basically the people from NBDG which started as a disc golf store and branched into tournament organizing with Tyyni and then more events over Europe, mostly in Finland. A few years ago they also branched out into prost produced tournament coverage, which has gotten to be pretty darn good.

This year they decided that they basically wanted to be the EU DGPT, host the best run and most prestigious events and have them live streamed. They had a couple of test events that went pretty well, you can check one out here:



It's all in Finnish but I believe the EPT that's starting next year is supposed to be in English.

I have no idea whether it'll work, but they have experience and have been building up to something like this for a few years, so who knows, the initial signs look good.

 

[@CD-]

I don't disagree that it is possible. However I agree with three putt I don't see how this would be financially in there best interest to have top tier talent playing on another tour. At the end of the day the DGPT is looking to grow the US tour in hopes of getting bigger sponsors for larger profits. In order for that to happen they need the top talent to stay stateside. If the Euro wasn't a major they probably wouldn't even have that event on tour. It's all speculation at this point and I'm sure more information will be released in the coming months.

Going to Europe and doing a tour with multiple tournaments/clinics/signing sessions to interact with the fans there is part of the appeal to the individual players and their sponsors (who also sponsor events on the DGPT). There is a large enough group that wouldn't have the opportunity to go overseas that familiar faces would still remain stateside bringing in views on the DGN live broadcast.

DGPT is not restrained as a US national tour either. They had scheduled the PCS Sula Open as a Pro tour event this year (maybe this is what you were getting at with the European Open Major being scheduled there). Curious what the logistics for the potential overseas broadcast were going to be (transporting the cameras/latency with the DGN networking) but I think it would be a cool idea for DGN to expand and have separate parallel streams run with international commentators/advertising for some of the events they host. If the Euro Tour/Euro PT is able to set up live streaming then DGN could potentially host & stream those as well.

 

[dehaas]

Let's look at the reality of the situation…

A trip for a US player over to Europe is very expensive. Gotta figure the top couple of players are getting sponsorship help or can outright afford it. For pretty much everybody else it's a net loss trip.

Now let's say they're staying a couple weeks to hit multiple events. Cost continues to go up, and now you're talking about missing DGPT events back home and potentially not landing enough points to make the DGPT championship, which has had a very strong payout in its history.

No doubt making the extended trip would be quite the experience, but I don't see how you could reasonably argue it makes sense for anybody but a very small handful of people.

Dickerson has said on record he avoids the west coast because of travel expenses and we're talking about a several week Eurotrip? No dice…

 

[elmexdela]

Let's look at the reality of the situation…

A trip for a US player over to Europe is very expensive. Gotta figure the top couple of players are getting sponsorship help or can outright afford it. For pretty much everybody else it's a net loss trip.

Now let's say they're staying a couple weeks to hit multiple events. Cost continues to go up, and now you're talking about missing DGPT events back home and potentially not landing enough points to make the DGPT championship, which has had a very strong payout in its history.

No doubt making the extended trip would be quite the experience, but I don't see how you could reasonably argue it makes sense for anybody but a very small handful of people.

Dickerson has said on record he avoids the west coast because of travel expenses and we're talking about a several week Eurotrip? No dice…

whats cdick real job