non-tournament player playing during tournament

[chevis]

how about a non-tournament person playing along with a card during a tournament?

the card obviously would have ok'd it, & they are keeping up with the card in front of them.

 

[txmxer]

Not defending that in any way, but leagues are really becoming my bane.

In past years, we basically had some kind of league every night, but you knew what course, so you could avoid it. Now, with pre-registration and leagues sometimes filling up a week in advance, you have all these people starting their own events, and impromptu overfill leagues popping up almost daily. And it is getting really tough to get a round in during the week.

I think we had 4 or 5 cards last night, so plenty of room to play. I wouldn't have cared if they had not dawdled getting started. And the other guys were not really that bad.

Both remind me of being out on the freeway and someone passes you, changes to your lane, then slows down to the point you have to brake.

 

[Rastnav]

So again, while out of simple courtesy I would never crash an organized event, I don't think its a cut and dried one size fits all issue.

Nuance? This is the internet, sir! No room for that.

Honestly though, everyone trying to claim it's absolutely one way or the other is engaginging in black and white thinking, which usually leads to strife and pain.

 

[autocrosscrx]

I think we had 4 or 5 cards last night, so plenty of room to play. I wouldn't have cared if they had not dawdled getting started. And the other guys were not really that bad.

Both remind me of being out on the freeway and someone passes you, changes to your lane, then slows down to the point you have to brake.

Yeah. They are cramming 54 people on 9 hole courses here, so there is zero chance to fit in.

 

[PBizme]

how about a non-tournament person playing along with a card during a tournament?

the card obviously would have ok'd it, & they are keeping up with the card in front of them.

I'd say that should definitely not happen. Adding an extra player to the card would potentially impact pace of play for the entire tournament. It also possibly gives an advantage to that card where they could gain an extra wind read prior throwing their shot.

 

[ballgolfconvert]

Something else to consider is that people who don't play in tournaments or leagues may not even realize that something organized is going on. Its not like disc golfers wear uniforms.

Another thought is, what level of "organization" imbues an event with specialness? If ten members of a small club show up for their annual championship should everyone else leave?

Above, someone mentioned weddings in a park area, well weddings are rather easy to recognize, likewise a family group gathered in a national/state/city park to roast hotdogs. But in those cases that doesn't make the entire park or picnic area off limits to other people. You don't wander up and help yourself to someone's potato salad but you do find an empty table and chow down on what you brought.

And what if two different groups show up the same morning at the same park to play? Would that cause some type of chain reaction that requires a meeting of the high council?

So again, while out of simple courtesy I would never crash an organized event, I don't think its a cut and dried one size fits all issue.

I think it is pretty clear that we are talking about "full' golf courses. I.E. groups starting at every hole. If there is room on the course, you can play, which is pretty universal around disc golf. If there isn't room for you to play without having tourney players being delayed, then you shouldn't be out there period. Room does not mean 1/2 a hole being open, or even a full hole open while groups are looking for discs. Eventually those gaps close.

 

[ballgolfconvert]

Not defending that in any way, but leagues are really becoming my bane.

In past years, we basically had some kind of league every night, but you knew what course, so you could avoid it. Now, with pre-registration and leagues sometimes filling up a week in advance, you have all these people starting their own events, and impromptu overfill leagues popping up almost daily. And it is getting really tough to get a round in during the week.

Sounds like you need to put on your league playing hat.

 

[autocrosscrx]

Sounds like you need to put on your league playing hat.

I work 4/10's, so doing stuff during the week is really tough. I can't get there from work in time and even if I could, I can't really commit 3+ hrs without cutting into my sleep and suffering the next day.

To justify being able to play during the week, I need to be able to squeeze as many shots/holes as I can in about an hour time period.

 

[ballgolfconvert]

I work 4/10's, so doing stuff during the week is really tough. I can't get there from work in time and even if I could, I can't really commit 3+ hrs without cutting into my sleep and suffering the next day.

To justify being able to play during the week, I need to be able to squeeze as many shots/holes as I can in about an hour time period.

So you have 3 days you can play wherever you want and avoid the leagues?

 

[jenb]

I've been on both sides of this issue. Before I knew there were tournaments, I ran into weekly minis with people warning us the mini was going on and saying we need to join the club and play the mini. Then we tried to play that course in a weekend and there was an A tier and We didn't know the difference. Years later, I joined that club and played the A tier. There were casuals ignoring the course closed signs and getting belligerent insisting no one has the right to close the course. I told one guy that it's like a pavilion in a park that you can pay to reserve fir a birthday party. Another a tier in the area had to resort to stationing uniformed police officers on hole 1.

 

[txmxer]

I've been on both sides of this issue. Before I knew there were tournaments, I ran into weekly minis with people warning us the mini was going on and saying we need to join the club and play the mini. Then we tried to play that course in a weekend and there was an A tier and We didn't know the difference. Years later, I joined that club and played the A tier. There were casuals ignoring the course closed signs and getting belligerent insisting no one has the right to close the course. I told one guy that it's like a pavilion in a park that you can pay to reserve fir a birthday party. Another a tier in the area had to resort to stationing uniformed police officers on hole 1.

Interesting story. My nephew got married and reserved a pavilion in a public park for the post wedding celebration. Prior to the wedding me and his uncle on his Dad's side were asked to go check on the pavilion prior to the ceremony. We get there and written on a sign it says we have it reserved, but this woman is setting up a birthday party. We politely try to point out that we reserved the pavilion and have 100+ people showing up soon. They refused to leave. We call the parks department, police are dispatched. Woman I has to leave, they leave trash everywhere. We miss the wedding ceremony completely.

People kind of suck on occasion.

The reception turned out great though.

 

[DanJon]

IMHO, it's pretty rude and it astonishes me that it happens in our sport.

Would you play 21 during a basketball game thrown by the parks?
Would you play catch in the outfield during a softball game?
Would you kick field goals during a football game?
Would you putt on a green during a golf tournament?

I'm not sure that these things are a one to one comparison with a public disc golf course.

A softball game is played in an enclosed ball field.

A golf tournament is generally played on a private course.

 

[ru4por]

Something else to consider is that people who don't play in tournaments or leagues may not even realize that something organized is going on. Its not like disc golfers wear uniforms.

Another thought is, what level of "organization" imbues an event with specialness? If ten members of a small club show up for their annual championship should everyone else leave?

Above, someone mentioned weddings in a park area, well weddings are rather easy to recognize, likewise a family group gathered in a national/state/city park to roast hotdogs. But in those cases that doesn't make the entire park or picnic area off limits to other people. You don't wander up and help yourself to someone's potato salad but you do find an empty table and chow down on what you brought.

And what if two different groups show up the same morning at the same park to play? Would that cause some type of chain reaction that requires a meeting of the high council?

So again, while out of simple courtesy I would never crash an organized event, I don't think its a cut and dried one size fits all issue.

It is a double edged sword, for sure. Recently we had a tournament at Hudson Mills. The TD had decided to run three pools. 18 holes on the Original Course, 18 holes on the Monster Course and 18 holes comprised of the 6 alternate holes on each course and 6 temp holes he had set up. (this is not actually the layouts, he mixed up the courses for better flow, but it was easier to explain this way )

No problem, he had the course closed for the sanctioned event and is a good TD, running solid events. BUT....he decided to throw a couple non sanctioned "warm up" events. They sold out quickly, as does every thing here. Problem is, he was running two events, one a Saturday and Sunday, using one of the above combo layouts. Essentially taking 48 holes of casual weekend golf holes out of play for a 72 person 18 hole event. We rolled up on Sat morning, thinking he was just using one or the other of the courses. He had not paid to close the courses, so anyone could have played, but what a mess it would have been...with tournament players coming onto and then leaving the usual course layouts. We headed down the road and played. But, the course down the road became PACKED quickly. We had gotten out pretty early, able to beat the rush.

I thought it was a poor idea and planning. All of our courses now are seeing tremendous weekend casual play. Keeping as many open for play as possible is important to the health of the entire game in the area, IMO. The game and the courses are for everyone.

 

[dmoore1998]

That is not correct in reality and you know it. Are you Rambo by any chance?

Right, it's not correct in reality, but it's a perfect analogy to your argument. Good to see you can easily recognize you are obviously wrong and hopefully change your perspective.

 

[BillFleming]

how about a non-tournament person playing along with a card during a tournament?

the card obviously would have ok'd it, & they are keeping up with the card in front of them.

I do know that if a card has only two players, for some reason, the TD can have a designated tournament official go with the group and even play with them. So for you to join a card, the TD would have to declare you a tournament official.

((106.F. To promote fairness, groups shall not consist of fewer than three players, except under extenuating circumstances, as deemed necessary by the Tournament Director. In cases where fewer than three players are required to play together, a designated tournament official must accompany the group and may play as long as that does not interfere with the competing players.))

 

[brentjacobs]

As a couple people have alluded to, the X is the perfect course to jump in at lunch. We'll be out of the way on whichever back 9 isn't being played second round before they even flight out. The TD/club/players will not care one bit. Probably be happy to have some more potential customers of their club swag. I'm looking forward to the round.

 

[DavidSauls]

how about a non-tournament person playing along with a card during a tournament?

the card obviously would have ok'd it, & they are keeping up with the card in front of them.

PDGA rules prohibit this. I'm not sure if its in the competition manual or tour standards, and am too lazy to check, but you can't have a non-competitor playing with competitors (other than an official, accompanying a group of 2).

I had this happen on the card ahead of me once. The two people who joined were well-known and well-liked locals, so it was a little difficult to raise a fuss, but they definitely slowed down our card following them.

 

[brentjacobs]

Nope

The chunk of cliff in that pick fell a few years back so the tee is slightly less sketchy now. Rather substantial rockslide that caused the entire park to close for most of a summer and the original front Green 9 to be removed. That crack had gotten noticeably wider over the years. Before the slide lots of people would climb right down the crack and off the front of the cliff to exit hole 18. Nothing too technical, just a unique little decent. Iirc I had to stop taking that route when I got my first mahal.

 

[foxdawg10]

PDGA rules prohibit this. I'm not sure if its in the competition manual or tour standards, and am too lazy to check, but you can't have a non-competitor playing with competitors (other than an official, accompanying a group of 2).

I had this happen on the card ahead of me once. The two people who joined were well-known and well-liked locals, so it was a little difficult to raise a fuss, but they definitely slowed down our card following them.

This speaks to why people don't like to call other rules as well. Generally everyone knows each other in disc golf, and nobody wants to create a scene or ruin the group mojo.

Personal opinion is if it is against the rules it should be called, especially if it effects other groups or the tourney in general

 

[ballgolfconvert]

Right, it's not correct in reality, but it's a perfect analogy to your argument. Good to see you can easily recognize you are obviously wrong and hopefully change your perspective.

The reality is that 1 person will always lose out to the 100 and they should lose out for the greater good. I am 100% correct and as you go through life hopefully you will begin to understand this.