** Official MVP Q&A - Answers **

[Allurex]

In our early days, we took an ultralight Wizard (~110g) and taped washers as weights to bring the overall disc weight to 175g. We did trials with mass taped in the very center, some with mass taped towards the outside, and weight distributions in between. The affect on flight from the weight distribution is very evident. The further you distribute mass away from the axis of rotation, the tighter the lateral movement of the disc. Although it was a primitive test, the principal still holds. We encourage everyone to try this experiment themselves.

This is exactly why I disagree with the effectiveness of the overmolds. Everyone knows that weight distribution works this way, that's literally how discs fly in general.

It's a silly example because of just how much weight it's displacing. The example they use (110g disc + Washers) shows a difference of where you add 50-60 grams of weight on the disc. When you add an overmold to a disc, you don't change the weight distribution nearly that much.

Like I said, I understand the principle behind gyroscopics and how it relates to discs. But it's downright laughable to claim that an overmolded disc does something that no other golf disc ever made can do. The weight principles are exactly the same.

 

[Puckstopper]

This is exactly why I disagree with the effectiveness of the overmolds. Everyone knows that weight distribution works this way, that's literally how discs fly in general.

It's a silly example because of just how much weight it's displacing. The example they use (110g disc + Washers) shows a difference of where you add 50-60 grams of weight on the disc. When you add an overmold to a disc, you don't change the weight distribution nearly that much.

Like I said, I understand the principle behind gyroscopics and how it relates to discs. But it's downright laughable to claim that an overmolded disc does something that no other golf disc ever made can do. The weight principles are exactly the same.

Have you removed the overmold and weighed an MVP core? If not you are ignorant, and while you're welcome to your theories and speculation, you should probably clarify that it is your belief, backed up by no facts whatsoever, that overmolding doesn't work. I have not destroyed one out my discs to weigh the core, so I am similarly ignorant. However, MVP discs do fly tighter lines than other similar discs, so it's my opinion that there might be something to the whole overmolding thing. Whether there is or isn't, some MVPs fly the lines I need them to, so they hold a spot in my bag. Others don't, and those slots are held by other discs.

 

[Allurex]

Whether there is or isn't, some MVPs fly the lines I need them to, so they hold a spot in my bag. Others don't, and those slots are held by other discs.

And there's 100% nothing wrong with that. If you like it, throw it; I have no problem with MVP.

I do have a problem with this notion that overmolded discs (not just MVP) are somehow better than a regular golf disc. The principles of gyroscopics are exactly the same, and the difference in weight distribution when adding an overmold is negligible, in my opinion.

 

[JAKE master]

When you add an overmold to a disc, you don't change the weight distribution nearly that much.

NFN, but unless you dissected an mvp disc, you are speculating. and mvp haters dont take kindly to speculating. they are the law around here

 

[ZAMson]

I do have a problem with this notion that overmolded discs (not just MVP) are somehow better than a regular golf disc. The principles of gyroscopics are exactly the same, and the difference in weight distribution when adding an overmold is negligible, in my opinion.

The nose (outer edge) is 5-6 times heavier than conventional disc plastic, IIRC. And they pretty much are taking something like a 110g type disc and bringing it up to max weight, just like the Wizard experiment. It's a significant difference in weight distribution when you can move mass an inch closer to the edge.

On the other hand...
I could say the difference between Teebird and Wraith is negligible and argue it all day. The opinion that the effect is negligible is what we're disagreeing on, and we might as well be arguing something as nebulous as the negligible differences between TB/Wr. Obvious differences, just a matter of what you consider "negligible".

On the other hand...
Optimization is always negligible. That's a fine opinion too.

 

[ZAMson]

Missed the edit window.

FWIW in first-hand experience, I picked up a naked core at the factory and weighed it -- they're adding serious weight in that overmold. I believe all the supporting numbers are proprietary. Just sayin, I picked one up, and it's ultralight, even while containing the rim wall zone that accounts for most of the disc's volume.

 

[tbird888]

Missed the edit window.

FWIW in first-hand experience, I picked up a naked core at the factory and weighed it -- they're adding serious weight in that overmold. I believe all the supporting numbers are proprietary. Just sayin, I picked one up, and it's ultralight, even while containing the rim wall zone that accounts for most of the disc's volume.

Are the driver cores that light as well with so much of the wing being core plastic?

 

[ZAMson]

Are the driver cores that light as well with so much of the wing being core plastic?

The core plastic is unweighted, but just looking at their forms, you'd think a Volt core would weigh more than an Ion core. But I don't know for sure. The amount of volume they're filling with such little weight is impressive.

 

[MikeTheBlueCow]

I have yet to purchase an MVP disc, but after this thread... guess I'mma hafta get one soon so I can be prepared for the distance drivers coming out this summer! Might just pick up the Axiom discs too.

As far as the discussion towards whether an overmold works, I think I can see Allurex's point, but this is pure speculation because I'm not very familiar with disc production; but I think a traditional production process creates the disc all at once and I'm guessing his thought is that the mold can just be made so as to have a thinner flight plate and then the rim is thicker and heavier thereby creating the same effect as an overmold. However I think there are PDGA guidelines for disc specifications that might hinder how thin the flight plate can be made. Also, I can see that to get around these spec requirements you could use a polymer blend that is lighter in weight for the core mold, and then use a denser blend for the rim mold, which would result in a greater contrast of having as much weight as possible placed in the rim. But I could be misremembering (I does that sometimes) about there being guidelines for that specific aspect. Even without there being a technical guideline by the PDGA... the theory still holds up, I think, to there possibly being some advantage. How noticeable I'm not sure, but I haven't thrown an MVP disc. I do however have an Atlas and that thing does fly differently than other, similar, discs. So I can say there is a difference. As long as there is a difference (even if small), then I personally think it is justifiable to have overmolded discs, because in a market where so many discs have such similar flight characteristics it is all down to personal preferences anyhow. Clearly some people have a preference for an overmold, judging by the following MVP has. I like grapes and grape juice but moderately dislike artificial grape flavoring... kinda the same thing, y'know?

But following that logic then if MVP came out with a blizzard-like core then they would really be maximizing the weight contrast ratio. But what atomically related name could they call that?

If anybody would like to shout out their recommendations for some MVP discs I should think about getting, feel free

 

[Halcón]

MiketheBlueCow, I'd pick up an Ion, Tangent, and Volt for sure. I don't know what your needs are, but those are the three best discs from MVP, overall. IMO.

 

[zj1002]

And there's 100% nothing wrong with that. If you like it, throw it; I have no problem with MVP.

I do have a problem with this notion that overmolded discs (not just MVP) are somehow better than a regular golf disc. The principles of gyroscopics are exactly the same, and the difference in weight distribution when adding an overmold is negligible, in my opinion.

There really is one big advantage, which isn't necessarily better for some. MVP discs hold on their line longer before they break/turn/fade. As someone that has tested just about every disc on the market at Disc Nation, I can tell you MVP discs fly different. The ability to hold onto the initial line is good and bad depending on skill level. Hitting a breaking point 5-10ft farther down the line is not negligible in the hands of a skilled golfer.

 

[Toro71]

I do have a problem with this notion that overmolded discs (not just MVP) are somehow better than a regular golf disc.

There might be a couple of people on here who would try to argue that the MVP overmold design is impirically better that other discs, but most I think would say 'better' in the sense "works better for them." I have no beef with "to each his own."

But I would argue that there is a clear, noticable difference in the flight characteristics. So (paraphrasing your argument) to say that the overmold tech here is a gimmick, or just for appearance, and has a negligible effect, is not only speculation, it's counter to my experience.

Leads me to wonder if you've ever even thrown any of the discs..?

 

[tbird888]

The core plastic is unweighted, but just looking at their forms, you'd think a Volt core would weigh more than an Ion core. But I don't know for sure. The amount of volume they're filling with such little weight is impressive.

Your statements have it fresh in my mind again to do my experiment. Will be cutting up some putters tonight to get some weight comparisons.

 

[Puckstopper]

Mike,

I use the Anode (neutral/US putter), Tensor (OS mid), and Resistor (OS Fairway) extensively. The Volt, Amp, and Shock are all a little too fast for me, but when I throw the Volt correctly with plenty of snap it goes forever. I'm hoping the Servo will be Volt-ish, but more in the speed range my noodle arm can use consistently. The disc you buy really depends on what you're looking for, but the Tangent is currently the one I've got my eye on, based on the rave reviews on here.

 

[Allurex]

Leads me to wonder if you've ever even thrown any of the discs..?

I have.


Really, like I've said and every reasonable person says: throw what you like. If someone likes MVP or other overmolds, throw them. If someone doesn't like them, they don't have to throw them.

A problem with trying to argue against or for the effectiveness of overmolds is that there is no real way to test such a thing. I can argue that I don't think they matter, based on my own experience, but it's possible that my observation is tainted by previous bias.

Same goes for someone who loves MVP discs. They might go on all day about how they notice that their MVP discs have 'forward penetrating fade' or fly better than other discs, but once again, their observations aren't 100% objective. That's how confirmation bias works.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

The core plastic is unweighted, but just looking at their forms, you'd think a Volt core would weigh more than an Ion core. But I don't know for sure. The amount of volume they're filling with such little weight is impressive.

Very strong polymers are not always very heavy (hence their benefit for many other applications outside of DG) so it makes sense and really not that difficult to understand but people love to question stuff I guess.

Its like bottled water which uses very thin plastic yet is super strong as well as being very light weight. Average bottle weight is around 15grams when empty but nearly 300g when only 1/2 full.

 

[ZAMson]

Reddit bias: the compulsion to say bias a bunch

Everyone agrees with "throw what you like / works for you." The disagreement is whether engineering is real, or if throwing a disc and getting an impression and fitting it with an opinion of what's negligible - is stronger proof than engineering.

There IS a way to test this. Take a light Wizard and a heavy one, add weights to make them weigh the same, then start moving weights around.

 

[delaveagabeast]

Thank you to MVP for answering these questions, one thing that kind of annoyed me:

"We add people to our testing team who we feel have accurate supportive reviews and show a genuine interest in our products."

Supportive reviews? So you only want your product in the hands of someone who is going to fap to it, rather than give an unbiased review of the disc?

...............

 

[Aim For The Chains]

Remember when the forum asked Paul McBeth to throw some MVP and he said "..Oh I cant do it.. but can have some friends" ^ rethink your statement.

 

[Toro71]

It's possible that my observation is tainted by previous bias. That's how confirmation bias works.

Agreed.