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OTB Lawsuit Predictions

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The burden of proof lies on the accuser. Since the results of competition don't support the assertion that trans women have an unfair advantage, proof needs to be supplied that we do, not that we don't.

Again, you've got it backwards. NR is the plaintiff. The burden of proof is on the plaintiff.

p.s. It's really weird that you would bring up the menstrual cycle of the world's best female disc golfer (who did sign onto the FP33 filing). Why put her on blast like that?
 
You repeatedly use the term "biological male" to refer to trans women. That. Is. Hate. Speech. Full. Stop. That is the ONLY context it is used. There is ZERO use of the terms "biological male" and "biological female", that is not rooted in dehumanizing trans people, in the current climate.

You're a centrist, I get it, but you're using the far right to support your views. You will be judged by the company you keep, and whether or not you call them out for their failings.

As to your question at the end there?

No, I would not be okay with a trans feminine person who has not suppressed their testosterone competing in a protected divison. I have had heated arguments with two different trans women who ether thought self identification should be sufficient for competition, or thought providing proof of compliance with fair standards for hormone levels over time (and thus the muscular atrophy and composition changes that take a while to complete) were beneath them. One of them is no longer a part of my organization because of it.

Testosterone suppression over a period of 24 months, to levels within the range of cisgender women brings a trans woman's strength into parity with their peers. THAT is what makes inclusion in competition fair. Even though I'd transitioned many years longer than that when I came back to competitive disc golf, I still played my first event back in MA3, because I knew I didn't have the documentation available (it takes a surprisingly long time to get Quest to provide you multiple years of test results) to formally be reclassified for play in the protected divisons. The TD of that event would've let me play in FA1, and offered to do so, but I can't take a solid stance as someone trying to fix the rules, if I just break them willy nilly - even knowing I was in compliance with the testosterone levels required.

How is saying biological male or biological female hate speech?
 

Both studies you linked IMMEDIATELY dive into the biggest fallacy that the Hilton and Lundberg study the PDGA used gets called out for.

THEY'RE COMPARING CIS WOMEN TO CIS MEN, NOT TRANS WOMEN.

The first one also lists, in Figure 1, "muscle memory" as one of the "irreversible changes of testosterone conditioning throughout life". The thought that a sex hormone affects muscle memory is so ridiculous, it almost doesn't bear more than a belly laugh.

Almost.

There are several studies like that one, which compare things like hand/eye coordination, and say that boys "better" hand eye coordination is because of testosterone. These researchers ignore the fact that boys play in ways that overdevelop that skill, compare to the games and styles of play most girls are raised with. How many times has the average boy thrown a ball by age 18, compared to the average girl?

Flaws like that abound in the studies that insist there is an advantage, and in many cases they do things like completely ignoring use of the off-hand for hand eye coordination tests, which would show the biological truth, rather than who has more practice.

Pick better studies. Or, like I said - learn to vet your sources.
 
Just a reminder that DGCR community standards are pretty clear. https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=142416.

Vonbeezy1 like many before them decided that they would misgender individuals. They were repeatedly warned and committed death by moderator.

This conversation may continue if people remember to abide by the DGCR community standards. If you don't like the DGCR community standards, /r/discgolf doesn't appear to have any standards and will probably be a better fit for you.
 
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I'm aware, and also of the situation as a whole in society. Again that isn't happening here.

I still object to what she said, and it was wise for her to take down that post. People need to be accountable for their words.

So you want to cancel Natalie?

If your so concerned about words being used here about Natalie, and other words associated with the trans movement, are you not trying to cancel Natalie and other trans individuals? Isn't this against the whole cancel culture narrative?

So if you've ever screamed about society canceling someone, and you're trying to cancel Natalie, you have some unresolved issues that you should work on.
 
Just a reminder that DGCR community standards are pretty clear. https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=142416.

Vonbeezy1 like many before him decided that they would misgender individuals. He was repeatedly warned and committed death by moderator.

This conversation may continue if people remember to abide by the DGCR community standards. If you don't like the DGCR community standards, /r/discgolf doesn't appear to have any standards and will probably be a better fit for you.

Is it inappropriate to ask what specifically Vonbeezy1 said that had him banned? I don't know if the message was deleted.
 
Is it inappropriate to ask what specifically Vonbeezy1 said that had him banned? I don't know if the message was deleted.

When the reason is written in very plain English, and also applied as the first sentence. it shouldn't be that difficult to go back about six posts from mine to see the what happened.
 
The burden of proof lies on the accuser. Since the results of competition don't support the assertion that trans women have an unfair advantage, proof needs to be supplied that we do, not that we don't. We are providing endless proof regardless, only to have the goal posts moved every time we counter the current points.

So, you think it's the PDGA's responsibility to provide proof that transwomen have an unfair advantage playing in FPO?
 
So you want to cancel Natalie?

If your so concerned about words being used here about Natalie, and other words associated with the trans movement, are you not trying to cancel Natalie and other trans individuals? Isn't this against the whole cancel culture narrative?

So if you've ever screamed about society canceling someone, and you're trying to cancel Natalie, you have some unresolved issues that you should work on.

I have no clue what you are talking about honestly.
 
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Aren't they the ones hosting the kind of events where these kinds of stats are getting generated?

You're right. They are hosting the events and paying out players according to the divisions they deemed necessary and fair. Seems like if someone wanted to contradict those decisions the burden of proof would be on them.
 
Even the FoxNews website is now covering the story. I browse all the main news websites, and this is the first one I've seen addressing it. The article is a simplistic, nuts-and-bolts overview for the layperson. My biggest question is in the article they have several stock photos of disc golf. One shows a basket (hole #2) in an overgrown field. What course is that?

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/transgender-female-disc-golfer-removed-womens-event-legal-drama

Disc-golf2.jpg
 
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DiscGolfCraig; [URL="https://www.foxnews.com/sports/transgender-female-disc-golfer-removed-womens-event-legal-drama" said:
https://www.foxnews.com/sports/transgender-female-disc-golfer-removed-womens-event-legal-drama[/URL]

Disc-golf2.jpg

Valmont?
 
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