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Over a thousand hours in the field and all I got was this stupid form.
- Thread starter pjsb1
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I have a throw at about 60% power here in slow mo and in full speed:
https://youtu.be/0wNsag6tGiM
This is after an in-person lesson with Sidewinder22 himself this past Sunday. Going to continue to work on the same things he told me about. I think the most important ones were squatting and applying pressure through my left foot's toes, bringing my weight/balance over my heels moving into the plant, and planting more open/taking a more "normal" step into my plant instead of trying to turn my foot/leg back. There were some other important things but those I think were the most important for generating more power, the other stuff was more about balance.
https://youtu.be/0wNsag6tGiM
This is after an in-person lesson with Sidewinder22 himself this past Sunday. Going to continue to work on the same things he told me about. I think the most important ones were squatting and applying pressure through my left foot's toes, bringing my weight/balance over my heels moving into the plant, and planting more open/taking a more "normal" step into my plant instead of trying to turn my foot/leg back. There were some other important things but those I think were the most important for generating more power, the other stuff was more about balance.
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- Nov 2, 2008
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Looking good. X-step is a little funky. There's a pause or slow down happening on your left foot.
It's been a while since I posted, here's an update on the backhand form. Video is slow-mo but then x2 speed after slow-mo.
https://youtu.be/NqVDwYJACsg
Feels pretty clean, I think I can get more momentum into my throw and better timing around my brace (wait for longer until I pull through). I also still need to work on getting my center of gravity farther ahead of my back leg like you've posted before, so I should wait for longer until I turn my shoulders back and can also push off my front foot more going into the x-step. Fixing my center of gravity problem is probably what will help with adding momentum into the throw, just need to be able to do that while remaining balanced.
I've regressed on my forehand. I'm t-rex arming again and like an idiot, I didn't record myself while I was throwing without t-rex arm so I'm unsure how I fixed it in the first place. I'll probably just do some standstills and work and letting my arm naturally whip out.
Meanwhile, even though I haven't really talked about it before, my putting is starting to really get good. Switched back to a flat putt and now it's much easier to tell when/how I mis-released a putt.
https://youtu.be/NqVDwYJACsg
Feels pretty clean, I think I can get more momentum into my throw and better timing around my brace (wait for longer until I pull through). I also still need to work on getting my center of gravity farther ahead of my back leg like you've posted before, so I should wait for longer until I turn my shoulders back and can also push off my front foot more going into the x-step. Fixing my center of gravity problem is probably what will help with adding momentum into the throw, just need to be able to do that while remaining balanced.
I've regressed on my forehand. I'm t-rex arming again and like an idiot, I didn't record myself while I was throwing without t-rex arm so I'm unsure how I fixed it in the first place. I'll probably just do some standstills and work and letting my arm naturally whip out.
Meanwhile, even though I haven't really talked about it before, my putting is starting to really get good. Switched back to a flat putt and now it's much easier to tell when/how I mis-released a putt.
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You are trying to wait or hold back because you are turning back too early(before you plant left foot) and moving the disc further behind you instead of keeping the disc more in place and turning back later into the plant. Need to play around with your rear foot placement in door frame drill so that you hit max extension/pull back/loaded as your front heel is about to plant/tap the ground. Your front foot is still airborne when you hit the max.
Something funny about this problem is that I do this better left handed. When I throw left handed I can keep my arm loose until the hit and perfectly leave the disc in place without pushing it back. Just something I have to think about, I know I can do it. As for the rear foot placement, I'm still unsure what I should be doing, I think maybe it needs to be turned farther back or I need to do a more vertical momentum based x-step/plant. I'll try both.
Today I mostly worked on leaving the disc behind with a relaxed arm. Had some trouble bracing when I did it "correctly" though so I think the two problems are related. Need to change my posture/x-step so I can leave the arm behind correctly.
Ok I figured out the problem with my left foot spinning out is that I need to bend my knees more to give me a better range of motion. This makes it a bit harder for me to brace but not impossible, just have to get used to it. I also started relaxing my whole body before throwing and focused on turning my shoulders back later.
Things I focus on while doing form work:
Bent knees (and shift weight)
Lead with right knee ahead of right foot to brace better
Turn shoulders back later
Keep off arm tight to body and punch down
https://youtu.be/EYCRYywyXdA
I've gotten everything correct but not with perfect timing and not all together. I think if I can do these things with perfect timing I'll be throwing fundamentally sound.
Forehand I've figured out that I'm just not whipping my upper arm. I need to whip my upper arm and get the whole motion correct. I suspect I'll forehand quite far once I get this.
Things I focus on while doing form work:
Bent knees (and shift weight)
Lead with right knee ahead of right foot to brace better
Turn shoulders back later
Keep off arm tight to body and punch down
https://youtu.be/EYCRYywyXdA
I've gotten everything correct but not with perfect timing and not all together. I think if I can do these things with perfect timing I'll be throwing fundamentally sound.
Forehand I've figured out that I'm just not whipping my upper arm. I need to whip my upper arm and get the whole motion correct. I suspect I'll forehand quite far once I get this.
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Your pelvis is open or square, instead of closed so your legs are too pretzeled up in the way of each other, instead of gliding out of the way of each other. Note how Eagle has driven his hips further forward especially the left hip "from behind / hogan power move".
Hershyzer Drill - Pelvis closed, Eyes on target. Pretzel your torso, not your legs.
Hershyzer Drill - Pelvis closed, Eyes on target. Pretzel your torso, not your legs.
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Let me make sure I understand. Can I fix this problem by having my left foot turned back a bit more and turning my left hip back towards the target more? To me, it seems like I have to have my hips turned back more and leading into the plant more to make room for my legs to swing out. Also, in this particular throw, it seems like my step with my right foot right before the cross-step is more open than usual, would that cause a problem at all?
This is another one of those problems I seem to have consistently and I never really fix it permanently.
This is another one of those problems I seem to have consistently and I never really fix it permanently.
While working on this I realized it's hard for me to have my legs not touch due to my narrow hips so I started making my cross step farther behind (not farther towards the target but farther behind myself) my initial step because that was the only way I could separate my legs without ruining the form.
I could feel "pretzel the torso" on some of these throws, so if I can get that feeling reliably that's what I'm looking for.
https://youtu.be/Xg5BAXhFkgQ
I think I can get my hips even farther ahead than I did in this throw and it probably has something to do with that hitch in my cross step that throws off my rhythm.
I could feel "pretzel the torso" on some of these throws, so if I can get that feeling reliably that's what I'm looking for.
https://youtu.be/Xg5BAXhFkgQ
I think I can get my hips even farther ahead than I did in this throw and it probably has something to do with that hitch in my cross step that throws off my rhythm.
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Ok so another throw I did today was this https://youtu.be/73pX0u2AK_c
And it seems that one is closer to having that forward spine tilt, it gets some other things wrong and isn't as clean a throw in general but it seems like as far as the spine tilt goes that one was my best one. It also seems like I don't start the spine tilt as soon as simon or you.
And yes, keeping my knees separated and my feet closer is a constant battle for a better brace. I self-correct on the course nowadays if I'm messing that up, so that's good. But when I'm working on other things it disappears unless I put a little brainpower towards it, same as my off-arm.
If I can get a hang of this tomorrow I may start working on my currently abysmal forehand.
And it seems that one is closer to having that forward spine tilt, it gets some other things wrong and isn't as clean a throw in general but it seems like as far as the spine tilt goes that one was my best one. It also seems like I don't start the spine tilt as soon as simon or you.
And yes, keeping my knees separated and my feet closer is a constant battle for a better brace. I self-correct on the course nowadays if I'm messing that up, so that's good. But when I'm working on other things it disappears unless I put a little brainpower towards it, same as my off-arm.
If I can get a hang of this tomorrow I may start working on my currently abysmal forehand.
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Kind of, but you are already tipped targetward landing on left foot and looks like your rear knee locks out straight and left arm doing the thriller dance.
Ah ok, so the forward spine tilt should be happening the whole time pretty much. It's part of the posture, it's not a movement. I kind of already knew that, but apparently the guy who was throwing didn't know that 
. And yeah the rest of the throw didn't go great.
I think I was focusing too much on a movement with the hips to try to get them to lead the throw instead of changing my posture to get them to be leading the throw. I clearly wasn't focusing on shifting my weight or my off-arm either.
. And yeah the rest of the throw didn't go great.I think I was focusing too much on a movement with the hips to try to get them to lead the throw instead of changing my posture to get them to be leading the throw. I clearly wasn't focusing on shifting my weight or my off-arm either.
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It can be, GG starts totally erect and then goes into hinge/flexion in the backswing which is a more powerful and dynamic motion. Paul maintains more hinge/flexion throughout, better for consistency/accuracy.
Alright, I felt like I did pretty decent today, just let the off-arm get away from me on this one.
https://youtu.be/fTTLqWLo9J0
It took me a while to get a hang of doing the lean while bending my knees enough to not let my left leg lockout and also plant well. At doubles later in the day I threw some ridiculous shots so I think I'm on the right track.
https://youtu.be/fTTLqWLo9J0
It took me a while to get a hang of doing the lean while bending my knees enough to not let my left leg lockout and also plant well. At doubles later in the day I threw some ridiculous shots so I think I'm on the right track.
Oops just realized I posted the wrong link.
https://youtu.be/73pX0u2AK_c
This is the correct link for the above comment.
Took me two tries to post the correct link on this comment as well. Strange.
https://youtu.be/73pX0u2AK_c
This is the correct link for the above comment.
Took me two tries to post the correct link on this comment as well. Strange.
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Yeah, left arm and knee are slowing you down there.
So, a while back I had this accidental "epiphany" about forehand and I was suddenly able to throw 350'+ but after a few weeks I could no longer do this. I thought I needed to turn my shoulders back farther while facing forward with my torso or something like that. It turns out what I was actually doing was pronating my hand in my follow-through for the first time while simultaneously doing a big exaggerated wind-up that made me either throw really far or straight into the ground.
Once I had lost my ability to throw this way I was desperate to figure out what I had done differently. Someone basically told me the correct motion to do (pronating) and what I was doing (supinating) but he didn't have exact words for it and I couldn't figure out exactly what/how I should be doing with my arm/hand.
For some reason it took me quite a while to think of this but eventually I watched this video on how to throw a baseball:
https://youtu.be/1UFFTXGbb8Y?t=267
At this point in the video he talks about pronating vs supinating and it made me realize that not pronating your hand is basically just not finishing the throw. The snap of the wrist and the fingers goes along with pronating the hand and that's what finishes a throw. If you snap your wrist and fingers without pronating the hand you're not finishing the throw and you risk hurting your shoulder.
It took me a little while to realize exactly what was going on, I thought maybe I had to pronate my hand the entire time to get this to stick but then I looked again at the guy who I model my forehand after:
https://youtu.be/w5w_Ue3HRhw
He just pronates on follow through and doesn't bother holding his hand in a pronated position in the swing at all. This isn't something that everyone does, it seems like people with a baseball background tend to pronate at least a little bit the whole time. Point being, I don't need to change my whole swing, I just need to make sure I finish the throw by pronating my hand when I snap my wrist and fingers.
Here's my forehand now
https://youtu.be/X2pHCXu3meI
Things I need to work on: My reachback leaks a little high and behind myself, and I don't get the best push off my back leg as it slips out a bit due to my knee moving inwards.
Things that look good (to me): Brace looks great (could maybe have a bit more of an angle to the ground rather than being straight up and down). When I focus on it, my wrist/finger snap is quite good.
I've also made a breakthrough in my backhand, I've finally figured out how to brace correctly. It's so simple, I just move my whole leg from the hip. I've always tried to articulate my leg movement from the ankle to the knee to the hip. I just move the whole thing like a metal pole from my hip and when it goes as far out as it can and hits the ground it braces immediately. It's made a lot of other things sloppy in my throw so I don't have a good video of it yet but I'm definitely throwing farther than ever. I threw a putter 320' slightly uphill the whole way, I was pretty happy about that. I'll make a separate post sometime soonish about my backhand, depends on how long it takes to get this darn off-arm under control again (seriously, every form change makes it go buck-wild).
Once I had lost my ability to throw this way I was desperate to figure out what I had done differently. Someone basically told me the correct motion to do (pronating) and what I was doing (supinating) but he didn't have exact words for it and I couldn't figure out exactly what/how I should be doing with my arm/hand.
For some reason it took me quite a while to think of this but eventually I watched this video on how to throw a baseball:
https://youtu.be/1UFFTXGbb8Y?t=267
At this point in the video he talks about pronating vs supinating and it made me realize that not pronating your hand is basically just not finishing the throw. The snap of the wrist and the fingers goes along with pronating the hand and that's what finishes a throw. If you snap your wrist and fingers without pronating the hand you're not finishing the throw and you risk hurting your shoulder.
It took me a little while to realize exactly what was going on, I thought maybe I had to pronate my hand the entire time to get this to stick but then I looked again at the guy who I model my forehand after:
https://youtu.be/w5w_Ue3HRhw
He just pronates on follow through and doesn't bother holding his hand in a pronated position in the swing at all. This isn't something that everyone does, it seems like people with a baseball background tend to pronate at least a little bit the whole time. Point being, I don't need to change my whole swing, I just need to make sure I finish the throw by pronating my hand when I snap my wrist and fingers.
Here's my forehand now
https://youtu.be/X2pHCXu3meI
Things I need to work on: My reachback leaks a little high and behind myself, and I don't get the best push off my back leg as it slips out a bit due to my knee moving inwards.
Things that look good (to me): Brace looks great (could maybe have a bit more of an angle to the ground rather than being straight up and down). When I focus on it, my wrist/finger snap is quite good.
I've also made a breakthrough in my backhand, I've finally figured out how to brace correctly. It's so simple, I just move my whole leg from the hip. I've always tried to articulate my leg movement from the ankle to the knee to the hip. I just move the whole thing like a metal pole from my hip and when it goes as far out as it can and hits the ground it braces immediately. It's made a lot of other things sloppy in my throw so I don't have a good video of it yet but I'm definitely throwing farther than ever. I threw a putter 320' slightly uphill the whole way, I was pretty happy about that
. I'll make a separate post sometime soonish about my backhand, depends on how long it takes to get this darn off-arm under control again (seriously, every form change makes it go buck-wild).
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