Overweight discs

[redrum]

I have a question concerning weight, since all this talk is flying around regarding illegal discs and such.

Obviously, one can find the max weight for every disc on the market through the PDGA website or something similar....so it's all public knowledge. Plus, the PDGA released a statement saying that while they and the manufacturers have quality control, it is also a responsibility of the player to know what the max weights of his/her discs are, and that they are of legal weight.

In stating this, I have been mulling this over in my head in regards to upcoming tournaments. I golf with a few players who I know for a fact have discs that are overweight. Specifically Wizards. I've seen the numbers (put there by themselves personally after weighing them; original weight read 175, aftermarket weigh in reads 180+). With al the legality talk of discs, would I be in the right or wrong to request their bag and discs get weighed at one of our events?

I look at it one way and say I want to compete against players who follow the rules and have respect for the game and its rules. On the other, I look at it as a big time dick move, and taking advantage of knowledge I have regarding their discs. I know that if I happen to do this, my bag would also be looked at, no doubt out of anger for them being told they cant throw their discs, but I have nothing to fear, as I am anal and have weighed the discs in my bag prolly about 4 times each.

As I'm getting better and seeing my rating and play improve, I want to hold myself to a higher standard of play. I expect my competitors to do the same. This same conflict has come up regarding recreational drugs...I physically can't be around the stuff or I get migraine level headaches. But a lot of my buddies do it, and in casual play it's no issue...but should I start calling people for breaking an obvious rule?

I know I run the risk of alienating the people I play with on a regular basis...but I have just been awarded a sponsorship, and I have that to consider as well...should I not represent my company and the game by being an upstanding golfer? I have even called myself for infractions before, but was told to not worry about it by my card so I didn't get the second needed. But I want to play fair, and be played against fairly.

Suggestions? Comments?

for the record, I don't need this turning into a weed/no weed debate. To each their own, I don't care when my buddies and I play casual, they know how it affects me and step away. I'm focusing on sanctioned tournament play...keep it to those scenarios

 

[T Strat]

I have been told Wizards are slightly smaller diameter than Aviars making their max legal weight 174.1, but most assume 175 is legal max for all putters. Assuming this is true, marking anything 175 would mark the disc as illegal, no matter if its 175 or 180.

 

[MyBad]

EEEsh! Tough situations there.:\

As for the "recreational activities" at sanctioned events. I would ask the guys on the card to leave a sufficient buffer from you and give you reasoning. If they cant do this and it is causing an issue ask them to stop all together. While it may be uncomfortable, I imagine more often than not you will have someone else on the card willing to help you out. I know I would, not due to any hardline stance on recreational use of MJ, but because I believe in common courtesy.

On the weight issue...unless I was certain somone was cheating - because it IS CHEATING - I would let it go. Like most sports you have to assume folks are going to cheat, that said it can be very hard to prove without weighing the disc. Players will gain an advantage, but I dont think it would be insurmountable. People who cheat are usually caught eventually anyhow...no need to start witch hunts without certainty though (I know that isn't your intent).

 

[discreid]

If it really bothers you that someone is using a heavy disc, I would talk to them first. Let them know they're carrying an illegal disc and that you plan on calling them on it if they use it.

Personally, I don't care if someone is using a disc that's a few grams overweight. I don't think they're gaining any competitive advantage and the ensuing drama would just make me lose focus on my own play.

 

[Hampstead]

Yes, rules are rules and all that, but is a couple of grams really going to be a game changer?

 

[Halcón]

Most players who carry max weight discs probably have at least one illegal disc in their bag.

Just let it be.

The manufacturers need to step up, and make it sure it doesn't happen. That includes every single one of them, from ABC, to Westside...and every letter in between.

 

[JC17393]

If it really bothers you that someone is using a heavy disc, I would talk to them first. Let them know they're carrying an illegal disc and that you plan on calling them on it if they use it.

Personally, I don't care if someone is using a disc that's a few grams overweight. I don't think they're gaining any competitive advantage and the ensuing drama would just make me lose focus on my own play.

Question is, how in the world would you know their disc was illegal? No one can pick up a disc and know just by feel that it's over the weight limit. And no one is likely carrying a scale to weigh a disc on the course. That's the reason it never comes up on the course. It's not really a matter of whether players have the principles or ethics to call another player on it. It's impossible unless the player blatantly admits "this disc is 6 grams over max". And who the heck is dumb enough to admit that if they have that knowledge?

 

[aardvarkious]

Do any TD's even bother bringing scales to the tournament?

As others have said: if you are concerned about it, bring it up with them first. Bringing it up to a TD after talking to them well before a tournament might be a dick move. Surprising them by bringing it up at the player meeting at the beginning of a tournament is certainly a dick move. If you are going to push it, give them time to find and get used to replacements.

 

[DanJon]

why, in your mind, is having an overweight disc cheating?

do you really think having a 183 gram roc is going to give you an unfair advantage?

this is the flip side of the argument when blizzard plastic came out.

 

[cjman]

I can feel when a wizard is overweight within seconds of picking it up. I knew my prodigy's were as well.

To the OP, the pdga has recently said they have a 3 gram tolerance, most overweight discs will fall into this range. Best way to handle this is by talking to the TD before the tournament. If he doesn't support you, your SOL.

 

[JC17393]

why, in your mind, is having an overweight disc cheating?

do you really think having a 183 gram roc is going to give you an unfair advantage?

this is the flip side of the argument when blizzard plastic came out.

I think the reason it's "cheating" to have an overweight disc is simple...there's a rule designating a maximum weight for a disc. There is no such rule designating a minimum.

People taking issue with light-weight (blizzard) plastic were just being whiny little weenies. People taking issue with overweight discs are adhering to the rules of the game.

 

[Cgkdisc]

To the OP, the pdga has recently said they have a 3 gram tolerance, most overweight discs will fall into this range. Best way to handle this is by talking to the TD before the tournament. If he doesn't support you, your SOL.

There is no official nor unofficial 3 gram, 2 gram or 1 gram tolerance over disc max weights allowed. The max weight listed on the PDGA Approved Disc list is the maximum weight allowed.

 

[cjman]

There is no official nor unofficial 3 gram, 2 gram or 1 gram tolerance over disc max weights allowed. The max weight listed on the PDGA Approved Disc list is the maximum weight allowed.

Why did the announcement say prodigy released discs 3g+ over the weight limit?

There is a 3g tolerance

 

[JC17393]

Why did the announcement say prodigy released discs 3g+ over the weight limit?

There is a 3g tolerance

The announcement said that because there were Prodigy discs that were 3 or more grams overweight. You're inferring a 3g tolerance despite the fact that no one at the PDGA has ever said or implied that one exists. One could just as easily infer from their statement that they didn't find any discs that were 1 or 2 grams over, hence "3+".

 

[cjman]

Prodigy told me they were told by the PDGA discs 3g and less overweight would be acceptable for play in PDGA sanctioned play.

This 3g tolerance is probably in place to ensure discs very close to the limit are not deemed illegal due to a slightly inaccurate scale at a tournament.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Why did the announcement say prodigy released discs 3g+ over the weight limit?

There is a 3g tolerance

There is no tolerance. There was a person inside Prodigy that mistakenly thought there was a 3 gram tolerance and they were stating that to some retailers. Once discovered that person was informed directly by the PDGA that in fact there is no tolerance and never has been. The only time a field tolerance was used was an earlier Japan Open when they allowed discs up to 152g to be used. However, that 2g tolerance over 150 meant the discs still weighed much lower than the official max weight allowed on each of those models used.

 

[cjman]

Copy that.

Why do you think the PDGA put 3+ in their press release?

 

[Cgkdisc]

It was simply indicating the severity of the problem. In talking with people since the announcement broke, we discovered more than a few players, retailers and promoters thought there was an unwritten tolerance of a few grams.

 

[redrum]

Question is, how in the world would you know their disc was illegal? No one can pick up a disc and know just by feel that it's over the weight limit. And no one is likely carrying a scale to weigh a disc on the course. That's the reason it never comes up on the course. It's not really a matter of whether players have the principles or ethics to call another player on it. It's impossible unless the player blatantly admits "this disc is 6 grams over max". And who the heck is dumb enough to admit that if they have that knowledge?

We have discussed this point, and I was assured they were indeed overweight. 180g Wizards? He was quite proud to be holding putters that heavy. At the time, this wasn't an issue in the PDGA, so it wasn't an issue on the course. Not that they are cracking down, shouldn't it be made known?

And they are a game changer, they will be less affected by wind and such.

 

[redrum]

It was simply indicating the severity of the problem. In talking with people since the announcement broke, we discovered more than a few players, retailers and promoters thought there was an unwritten tolerance of a few grams.

So max weight is max weight? Period? I too thought there was a leeway, of just 1-2grams. Couldn't a disc cooling differently cause it to be more dense, and therefore heavier? If so, you could infect 174g into the mold and wind up at 176.3g. Then there's nothing you can do about that....