Paige Pierce #29190

[VictorB]

My narrative for PP from what I've seen the last year or two:

She's at her best when she gets out to an early lead (wouldn't most people be, though?). If she's not able to hold a lead late into a tournament it seems like the nerves/pressure get to her more often. If someone really does pressure her late, it puts her off (DGLO, Worlds, DSM are great examples of one side, and LIO is a good example of the other)

Of course, we're all susceptible to folding under pressure. But most of us haven't been regular competitors under that kind of pressure either. I don't want to say she's used to it, but it sure seems like she isn't able to deal with it as effectively in recent memory.

I'm kind of ambivalent to Paige these days. I don't think she's as 'on top' of the game as she claims - and I don't think that tournaments that she dominates are as interesting either. It's the "boom or bust" proposition of her play that makes it somewhat worth following. It will be even more worth seeing the outcomes when the European women can come back over full time to the tour.

 

[wproct]

I've been a die-hard Paige Pierce fan ever since I first saw her do an interview on youtube, "Ask Paige Pierce anything". She is always such a fierce competitor and is a great ambassador for the sport of disc golf. She is also very complimentary of other players when they do well. There are also other FPO players that I like very much, but Paige will always be at the top of the list for me.

 

[medic5888]

Agreed, and I for one am glad to see her playing at her best again. However, alot of folks here don't like her and it shows when her play is less than perfect.

People always hate the best and what they cant and never will be.

 

[discerdoo]

My first thought when I saw her life coaching or whatever she had written on the back of a signature disc was - pretentious. But gosh, she sure is fierce and plays with passion.

And yeah, I'll never be a top rated FPO player.

 

[dndelli]

This might sound a bit brutal, but FPO, just like pretty much all of the am divisions, is all about who makes the least amount of mistakes. If you do that you win.

Paige was able to get away with making mistakes for a long time and still crush the field, because they made more. I still stick to my guns about her having the highest ceiling…aka raw talent. She's capable of blowing everybody away any given weekend but raw talent doesn't guarantee you a win. Making the fewest amount of mistakes does, and in that regard the field is catching up to her very fast and soon to be passing her up unless she changes her approach.

That's been the best thing about watching MPO the last 2 seasons. You've finally got enough top tier talent so it's not just Ricky or Paul winning every event.

The field is catching up to Paige. Think of it this way, all I heard while watching the Preserve footage was them talking about how Paul was known as a power player and now he's tuning in his finesse game. That will add lifetime to his playing career, as the crush boys have both had injuries and talked about dialing things back. It also will also make him more consistent. A dialed back Paige at 80% and fewer errors will get her the magical self imposed 1000 tiara she wants so bad. It'll probably get her a few more world championships.

I've always considered Paige's big flaw is how she handles her highs vs her lows. Every play is inconsistent to a degree, but Paige doesn't seem to ever pull back if things aren't all clicking for her. In the past, this was never a big deal for her, because she has an absolute cannon for an arm among the FPO field. So she could card OB strokes here and there and not lose strokes because few players could keep up with her distance. Or she'd have one really good round, one okay round, and one not so good round.

I'd say one of the biggest differences I've seen in her vs McBeth (looking back over the past 10 years), for instance, is that he's seemed to focus on keeping himself in the hunt, until he feels like it's time for him to press, and recognize when he needs to mentally reset. Pierce always seems to be pressing. And if she starts making mistakes, she presses harder. Not to say he doesn't have his mental boom kind of days. I mean we all saw him throw that shot in RD2 of Ledgestone this year having barely looked at his lie and where he was throwing out of frustration.

But generally, I can get done watching McBeth play a round and think, "Man, he was playing really off by his standards." And he'd still be in the chase despite the MPO field being so populated at it's top end. It's that level of consistency which gives him an advantage, usually, at tournaments with more rounds.

Also, the MPO is pretty heavily populated at the top end, usually Paige has just had to beat Cat or Hokom, if all aspects of their games were clicking. I would love to see the "Big 3" women from EU come over and really test the rest of the US women. I think it would do so much to progress the sport for the FPO by bringing in a lot more engaging and interesting coverage.

 

[scooby snack]

My first thought when I saw her life coaching or whatever she had written on the back of a signature disc was - pretentious. But gosh, she sure is fierce and plays with passion.

And yeah, I'll never be a top rated FPO player.

When she's playing aggressively and shredding courses, it's fun to watch.

 

[Jolt]

When she's playing aggressively and shredding courses, it's fun to watch.

Yes but it feels like she is balancing a sharp edge . . sometimes it feels like her aggressive drives can end up all over the place.

SO many times she throws i few % to close to max and tries to throw further than everybody else and ends up OB or in the woods. . many times on holes she really dont NEED to outdrive the field.

But i still think the standstill approach is the week part of her game. . that more than anything cost her Worlds (she made a few horrible ones the last round at Worlds)

. . .and that she cant dial back from the tee.

 

[Rastnav]

I've always considered Paige's big flaw is how she handles her highs vs her lows. Every play is inconsistent to a degree, but Paige doesn't seem to ever pull back if things aren't all clicking for her. In the past, this was never a big deal for her, because she has an absolute cannon for an arm among the FPO field. So she could card OB strokes here and there and not lose strokes because few players could keep up with her distance. Or she'd have one really good round, one okay round, and one not so good round.

I'd say one of the biggest differences I've seen in her vs McBeth (looking back over the past 10 years), for instance, is that he's seemed to focus on keeping himself in the hunt, until he feels like it's time for him to press, and recognize when he needs to mentally reset. Pierce always seems to be pressing. And if she starts making mistakes, she presses harder. Not to say he doesn't have his mental boom kind of days. I mean we all saw him throw that shot in RD2 of Ledgestone this year having barely looked at his lie and where he was throwing out of frustration.

But generally, I can get done watching McBeth play a round and think, "Man, he was playing really off by his standards." And he'd still be in the chase despite the MPO field being so populated at it's top end. It's that level of consistency which gives him an advantage, usually, at tournaments with more rounds.

Also, the MPO is pretty heavily populated at the top end, usually Paige has just had to beat Cat or Hokom, if all aspects of their games were clicking. I would love to see the "Big 3" women from EU come over and really test the rest of the US women. I think it would do so much to progress the sport for the FPO by bringing in a lot more engaging and interesting coverage.

And yet, McBeth threw an epic hissy fit playing Ledgestone after carding one too many bogeys, hitting one too many trees.

Paige started out 3 over par on that course, and finished 4 under. Imagine what would have been said if Paige started acting like Paul did en route to crashing and burning.

You're not wrong that Paul keeps himself in the hunt, but so does Paige. The relative strength of the fields means that a) Paige keeping herself in the hunt results in 7 wins, in a row, 9 wins total, including USWDGC, b) Paul keeps himself in the hunt and loses.

I do think there is something to the idea that Pierce hasn't had as much practice being pressured by the FPO field which makes her potentially subject to more struggles if she is being pressured later in tournaments, but then again she came into the final round of USWDGC only two strokes ahead and preceded to simply shove King and everyone else into the dirt, by going 6 down in the first 7 holes. King had her own struggles, but no one else in the field came close to touching Paige's opening hole results.

Paige is a dominant player who also has a tendency to get loose with her game, which I think has always been her M.O. Babe Ruth struck out a bunch. We are who we are.

 

[Jolt]

IF Paige had the tactic mind of Sexton she would be unbeatable.

McBeth is really good at pushing when he need to and dial back when he dont need to push. . . . Paige just can´t dial back, she says when she tries her game falls apart.

Paige is often pushed hard or not at all. . . Paul 2021 is pushed hard every tournament . . . Paige is not that used to that, and have lost a few big ones when her lead was small going in to the last few holes.

Paul have +10 player pushing him HARD every tournament. . .Paige have max 3

 

[Emoney]

McBeth threw an epic hissy fit playing Ledgestone

Lol "epic hissy fit"...

I feel like your comment had more frustration behind it then Mcbeth showed on the course.

If Mcbeths reaction was epic...I'm sure the rest of the open players reactions that weren't filmed were...

"CATASTROPHIC"

"LEGENDARY"

"MIND BLOWING"

Good win Paige. Leave these other ladies in the dust. Def need to get the Euros over here...asap

 

[autocrosscrx]

I thought it was really interesting that Page said that she basically didn't throw anything over a 9 this weekend. With that said, it wasn't really expressed in a way that seemed to suggest that she thought that was a benefit to her game and we may see more of that kind of thing from her in the future.

 

[dndelli]

And yet, McBeth threw an epic hissy fit playing Ledgestone after carding one too many bogeys, hitting one too many trees.

This is what I was talking about, though you said it with more panache.

I do think there is something to the idea that Pierce hasn't had as much practice being pressured by the FPO field which makes her potentially subject to more struggles if she is being pressured later in tournaments, but then again she came into the final round of USWDGC only two strokes ahead and preceded to simply shove King and everyone else into the dirt, by going 6 down in the first 7 holes. King had her own struggles, but no one else in the field came close to touching Paige's opening hole results.

I agree with this, but would love to see Eveliina, Henna, and Kristin on tour just because they would definitely provide her with more consistent competition. Cat goes through periods where her game is firing on all cylinders, Hokom seems to hang around waiting to sweep up a win here-and-there, and King is definitely that up-and-comer that will likely be nipping at her heels over the next few years, but I think the other three being there would likely make it so Paige was challenged at every event.

Though, I think, Paige would still be the person to beat.

 

[wproct]

I agree about the need for the European players, stiff competition raises the whole level of play.:clap:

 

[VictorB]

I thought it was really interesting that Page said that she basically didn't throw anything over a 9 this weekend. With that said, it wasn't really expressed in a way that seemed to suggest that she thought that was a benefit to her game and we may see more of that kind of thing from her in the future.

I'm pretty sure it was 2 reasons: (likely both, imo)

1. Northwoods black doesn't really need high speed drivers. Raptor/firebird was probably the fastest thing required for most players on that course.

2. She wanted to throw the Passion as much as possible off the tee.

I don't think it has much to do with benefiting her game as much as fitting a course and advertising her product

 

[pjhayes7]

My first thought when I saw her life coaching or whatever she had written on the back of a signature disc was - pretentious. But gosh, she sure is fierce and plays with passion.

And yeah, I'll never be a top rated FPO player.

Hey, don't let anyone tell you you can't achieve your dreams. Believe in yourself and make it happen.

 

[VictorB]

The player rating tells the story. Paige is consistently the best.

Rating doesn't tell the whole story though.

Paige has a higher ceiling than most other FPO, but her floor brings her back to the pack quite frequently. If she shot 960-1000 all the time, I'd hold a higher value on the resulting 980 rating than I would if she shot as many 920 rounds as 1040 rounds.

On average, she should beat her closest rated competitors by 1-2 strokes per round. An average is just an average though - it's a statistical data point. Ratings on their own can't tell us that she's consistently the best. The advanced analytics we're seeing come to the forefront are starting to shed more light on the situation. We're really starting to see where a player's strengths and weaknesses lie. One thing we do know, is that on a distance course, there isn't much competition for Pierce in the US. Her distance is such a huge advantage over the field that it masks a lot of the other shortcomings.

 

[jenb]

Rating doesn't tell the whole story though.

Paige has a higher ceiling than most other FPO, but her floor brings her back to the pack quite frequently. If she shot 960-1000 all the time, I'd hold a higher value on the resulting 980 rating than I would if she shot as many 920 rounds as 1040 rounds.

On average, she should beat her closest rated competitors by 1-2 strokes per round. An average is just an average though - it's a statistical data point. Ratings on their own can't tell us that she's consistently the best. The advanced analytics we're seeing come to the forefront are starting to shed more light on the situation. We're really starting to see where a player's strengths and weaknesses lie. One thing we do know, is that on a distance course, there isn't much competition for Pierce in the US. Her distance is such a huge advantage over the field that it masks a lot of the other shortcomings.

I recall Chuck posting that a player's standard deviation reduces as they improve. It seems like a higher variation in round ratings is just a sign that the player can continue to improve, and thus hasn't peaked yet.

 

[jakebake91]

I recall Chuck posting that a player's standard deviation reduces as they improve. It seems like a higher variation in round ratings is just a sign that the player can continue to improve, and thus hasn't peaked yet.

Wouldn't that mean that a player just has the room for improvement? Not that they necessarily will? Is it likely that, at this point in her career, Paige makes a big "improvement" in her game?

 

[jenb]

Wouldn't that mean that a player just has the room for improvement? Not that they necessarily will? Is it likely that, at this point in her career, Paige makes a big "improvement" in her game?

I think her attitude towards disc golf has changed a lot recently due to the increase in opportunity for significant remuneration.. I recall years ago, when she was already a world champ, she laughed about how she never practiced putting, just parking holes. Her putting has improved immensely since then, and I bet she's doing everything she can now to improve. She said as much recently. She said she's only getting better and I believe her.

 

[robdeforge]

paige pulling a line from Simon's playbook, "I wasn't even trying to win!"

"So that's something where I'm picking that apart after the event. How did she get those 8 strokes on me? And I know that 6 of them were on hole 8. I chose to go for the shot, to try to make the fans happy, make an ace, and then ran the drop zone putt. so those I don't regret them by any means but when I'm looking at and I'm seeing, OK, Catrina got almost like an easy win. She wasn't sweating at all that final round. She was just cruising. So when I'm thinking about OK do I want to continue to put on a show, or do I want to try to win these tournaments?

That's something I've been reflecting on. But I know that moving forward this weekend I want to put a stamp down. I want to show that I am the #1 in the DGPT points for a reason. I wanna show that I am a tournament player as well. So this weekend that's gonna be my goal, to win the tournament. To shoot as best as I possibly can. To get my rating up."



if the timestamp doesn't work, about 27:30