PDGATOUR - Would you support this?

[VictorB]

Everything is a no brainer until you think about the logistics.

Step 1: Someone wants PDGA to run all aspects of tour

Step 2: ???

Step 3: Profit!!

I think you may have missed my point

 

[ejvogie]

Thanks, ok...so the PDGA does not own Udisc, but if they invested in it, I would assume there is some level of ownership for future roi. Membership fees are paying for the investment of internal app development, udisc partnerships, udisc doing live scoring for pdga events. You have no problem with your membership fees paying for that, but you wouldn't want your fees also going toward growing the pro side...

Correct. UDisc has some (admittedly small) benefit to me, whereas growing a redundant pro tour (or taking over the current one and locking out any other media) does not.

TBH, I'm not sure what UDisc has to do with the discussion at hand, other than it's something else the PDGA is spending money on...

 

[c_a_miller]

We are going to fail to see this the same way, because I think the idea of a non-player fan base is a fantasy.

So much this. Growth in disc golf is not being done because of the pro side. Growth in disc golf is from grassroots initiatives at local courses through tournaments, minis and casual rounds.

Paul McBeth is making thousands of dollars for Discraft based on new discs that he is selling to players who are already playing, but any new player who has no idea about any pro tour is not going to care about McBeth, or his switch in sponsors, or his 4 time world championship.

 

[DiscFifty]

So much this. Growth in disc golf is not being done because of the pro side. Growth in disc golf is from grassroots initiatives at local courses through tournaments, minis and casual rounds.

The grass roots rise of casual disc golf is amazing to say the least, but this thread is about growing public awareness of the pro side and how the pro side may or not benefit from the PDGA taking a larger interest in it.

 

[DavidSauls]

As a PDGA member - if there was a bump in membership fees and it went toward producing high quality coverage? Awesome. A lot of people here are very against "supporting the pros" with the money of the members - but what I want as a fan, in addition to being a tournament player, is great coverage. If the pro players are elevated financially by the exposure - I'm okay with that. I'm not okay with this kind of money being involved directly in paying players on the tour - but their elevation as a result of having great live product? Sweet.

I'm okay with what the PDGA has done thus far for me as a player, what has happened in establishing IDGC, and so on - so I like how things are set up now. But if someone can find a way to afford better coverage, I'm for it.

There simply aren't enough of you.

Not enough to justify the PDGA putting considerable resources into media productions.

And if there were.....the PDGA wouldn't have to, because there would be media companies and sponsors competing for your eyeballs.

 

[DavidSauls]

The grass roots rise of casual disc golf is amazing to say the least, but this thread is about growing public awareness of the pro side and how the pro side may or not benefit from the PDGA taking a larger interest in it.

The PDGA has already squandered considerable resources on trying to grow public awareness of the pro tour. For a couple of years they had a well-paid position in charge of such things, which I think resulted in a cider sponsorship. They put disc golf on cable TV, with clips on The Beach Channel. During the ADGT fiasco in 2016, I believe Brian said they had looked into ESPN3 but dismissed it as not practical. I'm sure they're still looking for ways to promote the pro tour side of disc golf.

No one has cracked the nut of getting non-disc-golfers to watch, and many of us consider it a folly to think we ever will. It's much more of a participation sport, than a spectator sport.

But, who knows---the grass-roots growth, in courses and players and youth programs and scholastic programs and the rest---may one day yield a large enough base to create a sufficient fan base.

 

[DanJon]

Thanks, ok...so the PDGA does not own Udisc, but if they invested in it, I would assume there is some level of ownership for future roi. Membership fees are paying for the investment of internal app development, udisc partnerships, udisc doing live scoring for pdga events. You have no problem with your membership fees paying for that, but you wouldn't want your fees also going toward growing the pro side. okayyyyyy..

I haven't been around disc golf that long, but it's completely obvious the pro side is severely lacking when it comes to public awareness. Seems like every few years something comes along trying to get to the next level (which has to be growing the non player fan base). And then it sputters out. Why hasn't the PDGA addressed this...years ago? Is the am side of the organization so financially lucrative the pro side just isn't a priority?

If so...why not just keep things as they are with the PDGA and get a team together and start working on the PDGATOUR which focuses just on the pros? Would that be such a bad thing?

Dude, the people who have been around for decades are trying to tell you.

The Pro Side push has been tried over and over again.

It hasn't worked and proved to be a big money pit, that's why it sputters out.

We've had corporate dollars involved in Pro Disc Golf in the past and they left because it wasn't sustainable.

Everyone eventually figured out that AMs are what fuel disc golf growth and that it would probably be smarter to focus on resources with them.

That kind of bottom up growth is more sustainable.

 

[Glide]

Dude, the people who have been around for decades are trying to tell you.

The Pro Side push has been tried over and over again.

It hasn't worked and proved to be a big money pit, that's why it sputters out.

We've had corporate dollars involved in Pro Disc Golf in the past and they left because it wasn't sustainable.

Everyone eventually figured out that AMs are what fuel disc golf growth and that it would probably be smarter to focus on resources with them.

That kind of bottom up growth is more sustainable.

Agreed.

Disc golf is a participant sport...not a spectator sport. Of course, there are opportunities to showcase the sport played at its highest level, but growth will continue to be from the bottom up.

 

[ejvogie]

Even the larger spectator sports have been played (at least) recreationally by a sizeable portion of their viewers.

 

[onemilemore]

The difference would be that the PDGA offers funding assistance to Tournament Directors or in some cases funds all of the media production.

We definitely do this for National Tour and Major events.

 

[Jay Dub]

Dude, the people who have been around for decades are trying to tell you.

The Pro Side push has been tried over and over again.

It hasn't worked and proved to be a big money pit, that's why it sputters out.

We've had corporate dollars involved in Pro Disc Golf in the past and they left because it wasn't sustainable.

Everyone eventually figured out that AMs are what fuel disc golf growth and that it would probably be smarter to focus on resources with them.

That kind of bottom up growth is more sustainable.

Agreed also. It makes us old timers :wall: when this keeps coming up.
This sport grows, as others have said, from the rec players who know nothing about any pro tour and don't care about it if they do know.

 

[JC17393]

You've said "free" a few times now, do you really think NONE of our membership fees rather past or present, isn't paying for that?

Last year, I paid my $75 PDGA membership fee and $5 to uDisc to get full use of the app. This year, I paid my $75 to the PDGA and got the uDisc membership with it. I saved $5. I call that getting something for free.

I never implied that no PDGA money went to the app. In fact, I explicitly acknowledged that the PDGA spent money on their own app in the past and put that money into uDisc instead. But that money is a tiny fraction of what they are already paying to subsidize media coverage of NTs and majors now. For them to spend way more to "control" the media is going to either take funding away from other ventures (like EDGE or other development programs) or it's going to require upping PDGA fees. I'd rather they not do that. Because like DavidSauls pointed out, even if they did, there's no stopping Steve Dodge or someone else like him from creating a completely separate tour instead of partnering with the PDGA as he's done. So there's no point in trying to create a monopoly.

And frankly, I'm not sure what's wrong with how things have developed over the last 4-5 years on the tour front. DGPT had done way more good than not in creating a more sustainable schedule for more players to tour full time. And has helped build up the market for video media. Sure Jomez and CCDG existed and they probably still would without the DGPT, but they'd have less content to drive their view counts and subscriber totals.

 

[DavidSauls]

I wonder how many calls the PDGA board members or office get from membership, requesting a bigger investment in the pro tour?

Other than, possibly, from a few of those top pros.

 

[JTacoma03]

I joined this site in 2010, the PDGA in 2011.

47,200 numbers had been given out between the inception of the organization, and the day my application registered in 2011.

We are in the 110,000's 8 years later.

Yet some people refuse to see the change right in front of them. McBeth doesn't make 7 figures because people don't care about pros, coverage, and tours. It's fine if that doesn't suit your fancy, but let's stop pretending like it doesn't suit the majority.

Vote with your dollars, but understand that us 20- and 30- somethings are laughing if you would pull your support for the PDGA over a couple extra bucks a month.

 

[Karl]

A truly unbiased opinion is a very rare commodity...and one which I'd be willing to believe more so than someone who has some 'skin' in the game. If you can't possibly benefit from it, your thoughts on it a lot of times are more based in logic instead of those who can (who 'must' jump on the marketing bandwagon to cheer for "their side") lest it lose momentum. Not saying that this scenario won't ever occur, just thinking that "it's a ways off" at best.

 

[DavidSauls]

I joined this site in 2010, the PDGA in 2011.

47,200 numbers had been given out between the inception of the organization, and the day my application registered in 2011.

We are in the 110,000's 8 years later.

Yet some people refuse to see the change right in front of them. McBeth doesn't make 7 figures because people don't care about pros, coverage, and tours. It's fine if that doesn't suit your fancy, but let's stop pretending like it doesn't suit the majority.

Vote with your dollars, but understand that us 20- and 30- somethings are laughing if you would pull your support for the PDGA over a couple extra bucks a month.

Sounds like it's going well, without the PDGA taking over the media or pumping lots of my dollars in. McBeth certainly doesn't need any of them. And with all those 20- and 30-somethings devotedly watching the videos, they should do fine on their own.

I'm all for the growth, including growth of the pro tour. The spectator side can take care of itself.

 

[Jay Dub]

I joined this site in 2010, the PDGA in 2011.

47,200 numbers had been given out between the inception of the organization, and the day my application registered in 2011.

We are in the 110,000's 8 years later.

Yet some people refuse to see the change right in front of them. McBeth doesn't make 7 figures because people don't care about pros, coverage, and tours. It's fine if that doesn't suit your fancy, but let's stop pretending like it doesn't suit the majority.

Vote with your dollars, but understand that us 20- and 30- somethings are laughing if you would pull your support for the PDGA over a couple extra bucks a month.

Get off my lawn!

 

[DanJon]

I joined this site in 2010, the PDGA in 2011.

47,200 numbers had been given out between the inception of the organization, and the day my application registered in 2011.

We are in the 110,000's 8 years later.

Yet some people refuse to see the change right in front of them. McBeth doesn't make 7 figures because people don't care about pros, coverage, and tours. It's fine if that doesn't suit your fancy, but let's stop pretending like it doesn't suit the majority.

Vote with your dollars, but understand that us 20- and 30- somethings are laughing if you would pull your support for the PDGA over a couple extra bucks a month.

Yes, bottom up growth is great isn't it, after all how many of those new PDGA numbers are AMs?

They are the ones fueling the growth of manufacturers, tournaments and media groups.

 

[DiscFifty]

Fwiw.. my op was never about growing the sport or growing the am side. As an am player I am 100% fine with what the PDGA does. I have zero complaints as an am player...zero. However as a fan of pro disc golf, I am underwhelmed by how they promote the pro side of the sport.

The current PDGA site does nothing captivating to pull in new fans who may be interested in pro disc golf. The website looks more like a corporate newsletter for employees imop. At the very least.. PDGATOUR.com could become a central hub for all things pro disc golf. Keep in mind PDGATOUR.com redirects to the events/tour page now.

I'm still scratching my head over this...

Dude, the people who have been around for decades are trying to tell you....

Decades...d e c a d e s.... I find it odd that after all this time there is not even a basic portal / landing page to showcase the pros and the elite events. Especially now more than ever when anyone with minimal web design experience could get something up and running very quickly due to the tools available.

 

[DavidSauls]

That is a terrific idea.

You're right---there should be a website for followers of the pro tour---and by "pro tour" I mean the collection of top-level events that draw the top-level players.

Something with an easy to find schedule & results (just for those events), links to video, articles on past and upcoming events, etc. Without the clutter of all the different things the PDGA does.

Ultiworld's halfway there, already.