Pro's using different brands of discs

[denny ritner]

Gateway has always allowed their sponsored players to use a mixed bag. However besides Nikko, there haven't be a lot of "big names" with Gateway.

Umm George Smith, John E. McCray, Garrett Gurthie, Bradley Williams, Shawn Sinclair

 

[JC17393]

Nit-picking, but Gateway required sponsored players to carry all Gateway for a long time. Nikko was on the lead card at World's mid-week one year where Feldberg worked him, must have been '08. At that point it was clear that Nikko couldn't get over the hump with an all-Gateway bag and the "mixed bag sponsorship" where they required you to use a Gateway putter but otherwise could throw what you wanted was born. It was the only way they could get Nikko to the next level and keep him on the Gateway team. Before that the Gateway guys like JohnE McCray, George Smith, Justin Bunnell and Shawn Sinclair carried all-Gateway bags. McCray stuck with an all-Gateway bag for a while after the mixed bag thing started.

My understanding is that Gateway always allowed mixed bags for their players, but gave extra rewards/incentives to those that went Gateway-exclusive. I think it even went so far as the bonuses paid to all-Gateway guys was cash where mixed bag players got merch (and at a lesser value). So it makes sense that their top guys would go all-Gateway, since that was in their best interests. Though I don't doubt that they might have relaxed that and gave Nikko all the best incentives they could offer despite his using a mixed bag.

 

[_MTL_]

What disc do you miss the most?

KC Aviar

 

[_MTL_]

This is the truth, however for the most part, every company that sponsors players (and restricts them from throwing other companies) has a line of discs robust enough that players can find a reasonable substitute. In other words, while we might wish we still had disc X from company Y at our disposal, our sponsor makes a comparable disc that can get the job done well enough. No one disc is going to dramatically change or improve one's game or vice versa.

Right - but its a feel thing for certain discs.

 

[Three Putt]

My understanding is that Gateway always allowed mixed bags for their players, but gave extra rewards/incentives to those that went Gateway-exclusive. I think it even went so far as the bonuses paid to all-Gateway guys was cash where mixed bag players got merch (and at a lesser value). So it makes sense that their top guys would go all-Gateway, since that was in their best interests. Though I don't doubt that they might have relaxed that and gave Nikko all the best incentives they could offer despite his using a mixed bag.

Maybe, I never looked at a contract. I knew some low-level "I got sponsored because I'm local" Gateway guys in the mid '00, and they used to bitch about how flippy the Element got and how there was no mid like a Buzzz they could throw. They would go Wizard/Sabre with nothing in-between. Those guys had to be merch-only guys. Maybe they never read the contract? Come to think of it, at least one guy said he had never signed anything so I know he never read the contract. He didn't have one.

Gateway also used to stamp Gateway stamps on other discs for their guys to throw. I have a MRV with a badly wiped tournament stamp and a Demon stamp over the top that was a low-level local Gateway players. I don't know if "management" was aware of and condoned that or if that was done by guys in the shop for their buddies. My perception was it was the latter.

 

[Three Putt]

Right - but its a feel thing for certain discs.

I forget, wasn't it Steve Rico who kept having a problem with that? He was Discraft sponsored at one point, but it was an open secret that his mids were Sanny Rocs. He wiped the stamp and sharpied little Hawks on them, but they were Rocs. He just couldn't replace them with Hawks or Comets (this was before the Wasp/Buzzz.) He finally dropped the Discraft sponsorship and threw almost all Innova, but he was stuck on Magnets as his putter and woulldn't give them up. He got stuck in this mixed-bag limbo where he couldn't be sponsored by either Innova or Discraft. That got fixed when he started Legacy, but he went quite a long time as the best unsponsored player in disc golf.

 

[JC17393]

Maybe, I never looked at a contract. I knew some low-level "I got sponsored because I'm local" Gateway guys in the mid '00, and they used to bitch about how flippy the Element got and how there was no mid like a Buzzz they could throw. They would go Wizard/Sabre with nothing in-between. Those guys had to be merch-only guys. Maybe they never read the contract? Come to think of it, at least one guy said he had never signed anything so I know he never read the contract. He didn't have one.

Gateway also used to stamp Gateway stamps on other discs for their guys to throw. I have a MRV with a badly wiped tournament stamp and a Demon stamp over the top that was a low-level local Gateway players. I don't know if "management" was aware of and condoned that or if that was done by guys in the shop for their buddies. My perception was it was the latter.

Yeah, I got my info third hand from someone who was "sponsored" by Gateway so it might not be the whole picture. I put sponsored in quotes because all he really got was a couple free shirts and wholesale pricing on product in exchange for keeping a minimum of three molds in his bag (mixed bag otherwise). I think he lasted a year doing that.

 

[JTacoma03]

Innova doesn't require any percentage of Innova bagged. They're just strongly encouraged to bag only Innova. DM does the same thing. Jussi and Dave have very different views on DG and have been slowly separating more. I wouldn't be surprised if by 2020 DM does their own molding with Innova plastics and by 2025 they're completely separate companies.


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They already are (and always have been) separate companies. They just have an agreement relating to the molding and manufacturing of the discs. They collaborate on the R&D of new molds, and Discmania even has proprietary pieces that Innova cannot use on their discs (i.e. the part known as the "anhyzer top") and obviously vice versa as well.

Jussi's saga is just confusing because he's started many companies, including one called "Innova Europe" which is not owned at all by Innova Champion Discs, it's Jussi's distribution company.

 

[Disc Golf Chuck]

Innova doesn't require any percentage of Innova bagged. They're just strongly encouraged to bag only Innova. DM does the same thing. Jussi and Dave have very different views on DG and have been slowly separating more. I wouldn't be surprised if by 2020 DM does their own molding with Innova plastics and by 2025 they're completely separate companies.


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Discmania doesn't treat all sponsored players the same and do require at least one player to bag only Discmania. Contracts vary from player to player and company to company. I know that Simon's contract with Discmania states that he only throws Discmania discs and no Innova discs. I asked him which Innova disc he would choose if he could only choose one to have in his bag. He stated that it would be a Roc. Eagle, as mentioned in this thread and also widely known, throws the Gator and Max which are both Innova discs. So Simon and Eagle have different stipulations in their contracts with Discmania.

 

[_MTL_]

I forget, wasn't it Steve Rico who kept having a problem with that? He was Discraft sponsored at one point, but it was an open secret that his mids were Sanny Rocs. He wiped the stamp and sharpied little Hawks on them, but they were Rocs. He just couldn't replace them with Hawks or Comets (this was before the Wasp/Buzzz.) He finally dropped the Discraft sponsorship and threw almost all Innova, but he was stuck on Magnets as his putter and woulldn't give them up. He got stuck in this mixed-bag limbo where he couldn't be sponsored by either Innova or Discraft. That got fixed when he started Legacy, but he went quite a long time as the best unsponsored player in disc golf.

This is pretty much spot on. Teebirds Rocs and MAgnets were his go to.

 

[CreemCheese]

Watched the final round of fpo from gbo, seemed like Hokom was throwing non legacy on a lot of the holes

 

[Disc Golf Chuck]

Watched the final round of fpo from gbo, seemed like Hokom was throwing non legacy on a lot of the holes

Legacy allows their sponsored players to throw non-Legacy discs. Her main approach disc (the tie-dye one) is a Prodiscus Jokeri. She also throws the Innova Firebird. Each company has different policies and those policies can differ from player to player on the same team as I alluded to in my previous post about Simon and Eagle.

 

[bakerbaker1212]

I think the most awkward situation would be a disc company telling you to only use their discs and you are not playing well because you may like to use other companies discs as well. If using only one company would affect your performance, I would imagine a company would rather you win than not winning with using only one brand.

 

[tbird888]

I think the most awkward situation would be a disc company telling you to only use their discs and you are not playing well because you may like to use other companies discs as well. If using only one company would affect your performance, I would imagine a company would rather you win than not winning with using only one brand.

Because you can't say "Discraft...our pros win with Innova" and expect to stay in business. You sponsor pros so when they win you can push the products that win...yours.

 

[JC17393]

I think the most awkward situation would be a disc company telling you to only use their discs and you are not playing well because you may like to use other companies discs as well. If using only one company would affect your performance, I would imagine a company would rather you win than not winning with using only one brand.

There's nothing awkward about it at all. These companies aren't sponsoring players to promote the players, they're doing it to promote their products. If a player feels he can't win without disc X, and disc X isn't made by his sponsor, it's up to the player to decide if he wants to give up disc X or give up the sponsorship. We saw a player make that call this winter with Drew Gibson moving from Dynamic back to Innova...he preferred Destroyers and Bosses to Enforcers and Defenders.

It's only the smaller brands that make the concession to allow their players to throw other brands, but that's only because they recognize that there are still holes in their slowly growing line of products. They surely intend to fill them but they can't do it all at once. Guaranteed that once Bamba and Steve come up with a Firebird-like disc for Legacy, Sarah is going to have to throw it instead of her Firebirds. Ditto for the Jokeri.

 

[sidewinder22]

Guaranteed that once Bamba and Steve come up with a Firebird-like disc for Legacy, Sarah is going to have to throw it instead of her Firebirds.

Enemy = Firebird

 

[Monkeypaws]

Okay, so I've seen John E McCray listed twice as a Gateway team guy. Different guy than the member of Latitude's Star team?

 

[anonyduce]

Okay, so I've seen John E McCray listed twice as a Gateway team guy. Different guy than the member of Latitude's Star team?

Same guy


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[Monkeypaws]

Didn't see any Gateway in his ITB
http://www.latitude64.se/team-64/johne-mccray/

 

[tbird888]

He was team gateway before he signed with Lat. He has been playing for decades.