Putting angle issues

[skizzle34]

To start off I have to say the biggest problem in my game comes from consistency in putting. I just can't seem to find something comfortable and consistent and it causes me a lot of frustration. I am a spin putter and my biggest problem seems to be replicating the same angle on release time and time again.

I watch Ricky and Paul start their putt with a hyzer angle on their drop and effortlessly snap to a flat flight. When I am putting without thinking about angle my putts will fly with a roughly 2 o clock hyzer. As soon as I start trying to flatten that angle I feel like I lose spin and the disc almost slips out of my hand. Literally ANY tips would be awesome. I am currently 954 rated and I know putting costs me anywhere from 2-4 strokes per round. Please help :wall: hahaha

 

[Aim For The Chains]

Ever start with a little anny and drop to flatter? Nate doss style.. Also are you using a firm grip? Dont be a dead hand.

 

[The Last DJ]

I was thinking of a few things but then saw that you're an advanced player so not sure how much I can help here! I'll give it a go anyway: It sounds like you're stuck between a few different styles of putting. While looking at pros can be beneficial, I doubt it's going to help out much to model your style after someone else as putting is such an individualized aspect of the game.

I have two molds that I put with: the Gateway Magic and Wizard. I feel as though I need two because of the variety of putts ones might see in any given round. Generally, my neutral putter (the Magic) is one I use for laser-straight putts with my primary stance (aimed straight at the basket). This goes for most anything inside the circle and most downhill putts. At times, I'll use this disc for the anhyzer putt to get around obstacles close to the basket.

I've tried to pick up a secondary stance where I switch to my stable putter (the Wizard). When I break out the Wizard, it's usually for putts outside the circle that need more speed to reach the target or any time I need to use the straddle putt or when I have an uphill look at the basket. When I straddle, it's more of a hyzer line to the basket. By separating these two styles of putting, I'm able to let the disc do the work and worry less about my release point. The idea for me is to release every putt the same way every time: flat and nose down.

I hope this makes sense to you here. I just feel like putting is the most personalized aspect of the game and one you have to do what feels comfortable in many cases. When practicing, I spend equal amounts of time with my primary (straight at the basket) and secondary (straddle-style) putting. Perhaps if you placed less focus on release angle and instead devoted time to simply changing discs or considering how to address the basket, you'll see more makes.

^That was an honest effort to help. Keep us informed on your progress and keep working to shave off those strokes!

 

[corin_brown]

I am currently 954 rated and I know putting costs me anywhere from 2-4 strokes per round. Please help :wall: hahaha

You had me until "954." Cry me a river!

Lol. Just kidding. I'm just jealous, is all.

Interesting that you mentioned McBeth & Wysocki. As far as I can tell, those guys can be classified as push putters or maybe "smush" putters. I'm pretty sure that they're not spin putters, like you classify yourself. Maybe move away from spin putting and towards push putting? I'm rated only as a lowly rec player, so I'm not sure what I can offer a player rated so much higher than I am, but I'm a push putter and I feel like push putting is definitely the best method. I definitely can relate to the value that overall confidence in your game has when you're stepping up to take any putt.

 

[corin_brown]

When I am putting without thinking about angle my putts will fly with a roughly 2 o clock hyzer. As soon as I start trying to flatten that angle I feel like I lose spin and the disc almost slips out of my hand.

This is a little confusing to me. Is a 2 o'clock hyzer release bad? Why do you want to flatten your release? I just spent the whole weekend watching McBeth, Philo, Steve Rico & Simon in person putt bomb after bomb and as far as I could tell, they all released their putts with some hyzer. PM even said the 130' eagle putt on 10 in Round 1 might have been the longest putt he ever made. The rest of the guys were hella dialed in too. Again, why flatten your release?

 

[Jenga54]

This is a little confusing to me. Is a 2 o'clock hyzer release bad? Why do you want to flatten your release? I just spent the whole weekend watching McBeth, Philo, Steve Rico & Simon in person putt bomb after bomb and as far as I could tell, they all released their putts with some hyzer. PM even said the 130' eagle putt on 10 in Round 1 might have been the longest putt he ever made. The rest of the guys were hella dialed in too. Again, why flatten your release?

that 130 footer looked like it had some long anny before coming back to hyzer in...

i hyzer putt just a tad, no problems. in close, it doesn't have time to hyzer out. at longer distance outside the circle, the hyzer takes a lot more power more comfortably.

 

[PWaggoner]

When you putt next time try using the underneath muscles of your arm to just guide the power generated from the lower body.

Ill fall into spells where its all arm(upper arm muscles) or all lower body power with a awful arm flop. All arm is not lower body

When i eventually remember feldbergs arm advice it helps immensely. The target doesn't feel so big. Putters glide more. Easier to hit angels and lines.

Another thing that works well for me is i sorta "lock" my leading hip. The locking of that hip and my head gives me good consistent results.

Hope that makes sense and good luck. I struggle with putting during tournaments. For the last few months it has been more about figuring out things that mess me up then try and see what is working right.

 

[DiscinFiend]

I highly recommend you give the push putt a try. My putting has improved drastically since I quit spin putting. When I was a spin putter I was way less consistent. Some days I would make a majority of of my putts. Other days I couldn't hit a 15' putt if my life depended on it. When I first made the switch it was frustrating to say the least. I could barely generate enough power to get my putter to the basket on a 25' putt. After watching some video clinics & a lot of putting practice, long putts became much easier. The hardest part for me was generating power with my body/weight tranfer. When you spin putt you use mostly generate power with your arm/wrist & that was a hard habit to break. When spin putting it was much easier to roll my wrist & miss right. Push putting I never have that issue. I never miss much left or right. If I miss I miss high or low. I usually hit the tray or top of the basket. I find it easier to adjust up/down than left/right. When your putting is off spin putting its hard to figure out whats wrong with your form. When you miss push putting its much easier to assess what you did wrong & adjust accordingly. If you miss push putting your comeback putt is shorter as well. Since switching styles the # of times I bogey has gone down substantially. Even if you choose to use a hybrid putting style (mixing the push & spin putt), I think you'll find it much more consistent compared to just spin putting.

 

[runningDoc]

I was/and still the majority of the time, am a spin putter.

But ironically what really helped my consistency and improve my spin putt dramatically was learning how to do a proper push putt and push straddle putt.

What happened was before I would release my spin putts flat, and if there was a little distance (40ft) then I'd anny it toward the basket in a mini S-Curve kind of like how Paul Ullibarri putts. If I was on it was glorious, but not I'd be in danger of air balling a spin putt with a nasty come backer.

I made myself learn how to push putt and straddle putt out of necessity because of the wooded new england courses I play leagues/tourneys often. What happened is that once you get the timing down for push putts - you use the push putt's natural tailing end/action (which is similar in baseball fastball pitching to a natural tail and/or a fastball cutter) finish towards the chains.

So I figured, why not try putting a little hyzer on the spin putt and putt like how a cut fastball will naturally tail towards a target (strike zone/chains). Just a little hyzer just like how you'd put a little hyzer on a straight fairway throw to get more consistent/predictable/repeatable results.

It totally worked with my spin putt ! (thats a 40ft spin putt with a little hyzer on a very breezy beach course). its gotten to the point where I'm not worried about in the circle putts anymore. Just put a little hyzer on it and work with the small fade with the normal spin putt to splash those chains.

Now I see why McBeth/Wysoki/Kohling all use the hybrid spin + Push putt (where they seem to putt a lot of spin on it but also use a push putt form + some hyzer) once you get the timing and form down it its really hard to airball putts even if you're going for it on death putts.

 

[skizzle34]

I guess I may be classified as a spush putter myself. I know if my putting was on par with the rest of my game I would be pushing 980-990 rated which is why it's so frustrating. I feel like when I practice putting I start off good and slowly start doing worse and worse which confuses me so much! Thanks for the input guys! Any other suggestions are welcome!

 

[Putt for D'oh]

I feel like when I practice putting I start off good and slowly start doing worse and worse which confuses me so much! Thanks for the input guys! Any other suggestions are welcome!

I'm not in a position to suggest anything on actual putting... I might get the same results if I walk up close my eyes and fling any old disc in the direction of the basket, but this statement I quoted? That sounds like some mental fix, and probably a small one actually is in order.
Do you get impatient practicing? Do you start rushing or just become distracted in practice? Does your routine start to vary during practice or during rounds? Does your routine in a round change if you are putting well or putting poorly at the start? Is there normally a focus on grip/stance/aim point that you have when you are right that changes as you move on?

Complex issue but some people need to uber focus on certain things, some people just need to look at the basket and chuck it. Putting is crazy stuff, but I would look back and maybe think when things start going a bit off ask yourself what is different with your focus or mental place first. Physical stuff second.

 

[Shamis]

replicating angle of release is pure muscle memory. I don't see anyway around it. Focus on how you position the disc before you start your motion and then before it leaves your hand. If you do that the same way every time you should get the same angle of release unless you're doing something silly with the rest of your body.

 

[Zunz]

Take a page out of Hannah's book... Thousand putt Thursday

 

[DiscinFiend]

Now I see why McBeth/Wysoki/Kohling all use the hybrid spin + Push putt (where they seem to putt a lot of spin on it but also use a push putt form + some hyzer)

I would say McBeth has a hybrid putt but definitely not Ricky or Big Jerm. Ricky does a push/pitch putt with a straddle stance. He just putts really hard. I've heard Feldberg say he taught Ricky how to putt & converted him to push putting years ago. Ricky even says he push putts in his putting clinic on YouTube. Big Jerm is a push putter as well. They both come from between their legs then "paint the poll" (down to up motion). McBeth comes more from his left hip & opens his wrist more horizontally (left to right) than the other two. I agree with you about putting with hyzer though. I find putting with a slight hyzer works best for me as well.

 

[runningDoc]

I would say McBeth has a hybrid putt but definitely not Ricky or Big Jerm. Ricky does a push/pitch putt with a straddle stance. He just putts really hard. I've heard Feldberg say he taught Ricky how to putt & converted him to push putting years ago. Ricky even says he push putts in his putting clinic on YouTube. Big Jerm is a push putter as well. They both come from between their legs then "paint the poll" (down to up motion). McBeth comes more from his left hip & opens his wrist more horizontally (left to right) than the other two. I agree with you about putting with hyzer though. I find putting with a slight hyzer works best for me as well.

You'd be surprised at how similar those three putt:



Ricky Wysoki putts with a staggered stance and like Paul McBeth comes off his left knee/thigh towards the pole:



McBeth has the most hyzer of the three on his putts but seems to know how to add spin or take off spin when needed.





Jeremy Koling also has a staggerd stance, comes off his left knee/thigh and follows through to the pole with a lot of spin + some hyzer.

 

[DiscinFiend]

You'd be surprised at how similar those three putt:



Ricky Wysoki putts with a staggered stance and like Paul McBeth comes off his left knee/thigh towards the pole:



McBeth has the most hyzer of the three on his putts but seems to know how to add spin or take off spin when needed.





Jeremy Koling also has a staggerd stance, comes off his left knee/thigh and follows through to the pole with a lot of spin + some hyzer.

I still think McBeth comes more towards his left hip than the other two. I somewhat see what your getting at. Overall I believe Big Jerm & Ricky's mechanics have more elements of a push putt than McBeth. I personally consider those two as push putters, even if they slightly alter one part of their mechanics. Feldberg has called McBeth a spin putter multiple times (I think it's more hybrid). McBeth practices putting all the time on tour to "stay on". In the video bellow Feldberg (with Climo present) says they both don't practice putting at all while touring, except right before rounds. I know I've heard Big Jerm & Ricky both classify themselves as push putters. Agree to disagree

19:55 Feldberg mentions he taught Ricky how to push putt & brings Ricky on the stage


He literally teaches the push putt & says he prefers stiff putters like most pro push putters

 

[NAWWWLEDGE]

one thing that helps me immensely is remembering to stay loose. maybe it sounds obvious, but when I get hotheaded and frustrated I stiffen up which I think causes me to lose mobility and also causes me to rush things which causes timing issues. I used to play well the first round, and fall apart during the second round. There's a combination of fatigue and frustration that would happen, and they'd add to each other, and thus the stiffening up and timing issues, both with putting and throwing.

sometimes i stretch midround when i'm feeling tense, but yeah, what helps me most with my putting is staying loose and keeping a good full range of motion so full reach backs and good follow throughs, again both applying to putting and throwing.

 

[Broken Shoulder]

What's your grip look like, and where is your hand oriented on the disc when you start?
When you bring the disc back towards you as you start, before propelling forward, is it coming mostly straight back or low and left?

 

[PWaggoner]

I still think McBeth comes more towards his left hip than the other two. I somewhat see what your getting at. Overall I believe Big Jerm & Ricky's mechanics have more elements of a push putt than McBeth. I personally consider those two as push putters, even if they slightly alter one part of their mechanics. Feldberg has called McBeth a spin putter multiple times (I think it's more hybrid). McBeth practices putting all the time on tour to "stay on". In the video bellow Feldberg (with Climo present) says they both don't practice putting at all while touring, except right before rounds. I know I've heard Big Jerm & Ricky both classify themselves as push putters. Agree to disagree

19:55 Feldberg mentions he taught Ricky how to push putt & brings Ricky on the stage


He literally teaches the push putt & says he prefers stiff putters like most pro push putters

Feldberg specifically said a few times mcbeth is a push putter at ddgc clinic. Says it doesn't matter where the starting point is, as long as its a straight line.

He mentions rico as a spin putter, who was there as well and rico said he was a spin putter...

Maybe the difference between mcbeth vs rico would be more beneficial then analyzing three different push putters.

 

[runningDoc]

Feldberg specifically said a few times mcbeth is a push putter at ddgc clinic. Says it doesn't matter where the starting point is, as long as its a straight line.

He mentions rico as a spin putter, who was there as well and rico said he was a spin putter...

Maybe the difference between mcbeth vs rico would be more beneficial then analyzing three different push putters.

yeah we mentioned this before in the forums, but Feldberg seems to flip flop on what is and isn't a push putt and a hybrid putt.

In a putting clinic in NZ he said the exact opposite where he explained that Steve Rico is a hybrid spin + push putter and McBeth is a spin putter

4:10 "Spin putting, push putting and a combination of both called spush putting... which kind of looks like something like Steve Rico... you'll see he has a very good example of a spush putt"

15:10 "Lets just use the Paul McBeth theory because I think he's the best spin putter in the world, would you say so Simon [Lizotte]?"



for how much Feldberg tends to be wishy washy on what a spin/push/combo putt is and who does what, that NZ putting clinic is probably the best clinic online in learning how to putt because he covers all the basics/mechanics/theory behind all three fairly and comprehensively.