Red-green color blind accessibility.

[Nova P]

A year or so ago a local TD who is awesome started using only white paint to mark OB lines and such, because he was made aware that red paint on green grass is invisible to players who have red-green color blindness.

This got me thinking of other things in disc golf which are coded to red and green, and how to improve accessibility for people who cannot (or cannot easily and quickly) distinguish the two. Red and green spotter flags, for example, would likely look the same. Would silk-screen printing some kind of icon onto the flags make them more usable? One idea could be a bold check mark on an in-bounds one, and an X on an out-of-bounds one.

How else could spotter flags be improved in this regard? Are there other icons which would work better and communicate the idea unequivocally and without using text?

What else in the game is coded red and green and could use improvement?

 

[Cgkdisc]

Maybe your TD read this in Appendix A of the PDGA's "How to Run a PDGA Tour Event"
"The best paint color for marking important lines such as OB boundaries is white, especially with a green grass background. Although most can see orange or pink on green, there are a surprising number of people with red-green colorblindness who cannot see pink or orange on green. Orange or other colors of paint are OK for tee lines as long as there are also flags identifying their location."

I've bought a variety of flags for course design from Blackburn with a variety of markings. At one point before 2010, the PDGA was selling white wire flags with OB printed on them.

 

[Nova P]

Much obliged, Chuck. How about spotter flags? We seem hell-bent on always using red and green. Is there a better color pair, or perhaps an icon representing "in" and "out" which can be silk-screened onto them?

For example, many puzzle video games which depend on aligning colored blocks to achieve a goal will also place unique symbols on each color too, so that red ones have squares, blue one circles, gold ones triangles, or some other such thing.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Whatever the alternative, it would have to be a signaling mechanism that could be easily purchased at a place like Home Depot. Red, pink, orange and white seem to be the most common flag colors there with none I've seen with patterns on them. A practical answer in other sports is to come up with hand signals for spotters to where players can tell if they are in or out with palms down and arms out stretched typically meaning inbounds and arms up and crossed over the head or fists with thumbs pointing backwards meaning out.

 

[Casey 1988]

I have one time ran into a single person who was color blind during a tournament and my dad had used pink on the grass but had to get white at one point to fix this for a single OB spot that also had a low stake and rough non plastic twine through the loops on the stake. That rope was there to help with if the Dam had released water as that was a drain culvert, when water was high enough you played from the water but the original OB line does not get removed. Dad found that out the hard way earlier at a One day event a year before doing the South Dakota State Disc Golf Championships. Dad still did the one day event that year but had a fix for if Rain or Dam water release washed the paint on the grass. Also had the ropes with the paint to help keep people in the little box for the one mandatory spot on the course. Some people could cut through between a tall tree and the brush to the side and long putt from 60 feet for a 3 or 4 depending on skill where everyone else is a 4 or 5.

 

[lines]

You could also communicate with other players on the card.
Colorblind golfer: was that OB?
Non colorblind golfer: yes.

 

[DavidSauls]

Whatever the alternative, it would have to be a signaling mechanism that could be easily purchased at a place like Home Depot. Red, pink, orange and white seem to be the most common flag colors there with none I've seen with patterns on them. A practical answer in other sports is to come up with hand signals for spotters to where players can tell if they are in or out with palms down and arms out stretched typically meaning inbounds and arms up and crossed over the head or fists with thumbs pointing backwards meaning out.

I suppose that, in most cases, spotters could display the flags on the whichever side of their body was towards or away from OB, as a secondary indication. It would be visible from a distance (USDGC), and intuitive. You wouldn't need to define a code of signals, just as red/green comes with stop/go history. A little tricky, maybe, where the OB line is perpendicular to the line of play. A bit like a baseball umpire who both signals and yells the call---2 simultaneous signals, everyone should get one or the other.

 

[davetherocketguy]

You could also communicate with other players on the card.
Colorblind golfer: was that OB?
Non colorblind golfer: yes.

You can however, for cards of three you might need a card ruling on whether or not a disc is OB and if one of the remaining 2 can't see the line that makes the call much more difficult. Cost of white paint = cost of any other color paint.

 

[LateWesternSky]

A simple circle or x on a flag would work, especially if they were in contrasting colors to the flag color. Blue circle on the green flag and yellow x on the red flag for example.

I'm red green colorblind and flags/OB lines are very annoying at times. I plan on bringing this up to the PDGA the next time they ask for suggestions.

I would advise against a check mark for an in bounds flag. If the flag isn't fully spread a check mark may look like an x. The curve of a circle contrast the straight lines of an x.

 

[LateWesternSky]

You could also communicate with other players on the card.
Colorblind golfer: was that OB?
Non colorblind golfer: yes.

That helps after I throw, but you being able to clearly see an OB line in the distance and me not knowing where the OB line is gives you an advantage.

 

[SD86]

You could also communicate with other players on the card.
Colorblind golfer: was that OB?
Non colorblind golfer: yes.

This. In addition, the signal for safe (inbounds) is the 'safe' baseball sign, crossing one's arms low. The signal for OB is arms in a "x" held up high. We made these signals in golf ball golf when I was marshaling LPGA tournaments. It might be good to ask spotters to do that more often.

 

[JC17393]

You can however, for cards of three you might need a card ruling on whether or not a disc is OB and if one of the remaining 2 can't see the line that makes the call much more difficult. Cost of white paint = cost of any other color paint.

While the bolded is true, it's still a matter of what's available. I do some limited painting of lines for my tournaments (most of the OBs are permanently marked). I use orange paint primarily because that's the color that the marking paint comes in at my local hardware store. Yes, they have other colors in spray paint, but those are only available in standard spray cans. I much prefer to spray my lines with a can designed for marking...cans designed to be sprayed with the can held upside down.

I'd never really considered the color blindness thing, mostly because I've never had anyone point out that they couldn't see the orange painted lines. For the future, I think I'll try to find marking paint in white or some other color that will contrast even for folks with color blindness.

 

[JC17393]

This. In addition, the signal for safe (inbounds) is the 'safe' baseball sign, crossing one's arms low. The signal for OB is arms in a "x" held up high. We made these signals in golf ball golf when I was marshaling LPGA tournaments. It might be good to ask spotters to do that more often.

For what it's worth, at Masters Worlds this year (at Smugglers Notch) where OB was determined by stakes with no physical line between them, spotters were instructed not to make calls on discs close enough to need a group decision. To signify that, they were told to hold up their red and green flags in a "X" pattern, as in, "I can't decide which flag to show". More than one player got a bit confused by that because of the signals you suggest.

 

[lines]

That helps after I throw, but you being able to clearly see an OB line in the distance and me not knowing where the OB line is gives you an advantage.

You can however, for cards of three you might need a card ruling on whether or not a disc is OB and if one of the remaining 2 can't see the line that makes the call much more difficult. Cost of white paint = cost of any other color paint.

I am referring to the OB spotter using flags. That is the 'problem' the OP is trying to address.
Spotter flags.

 

[chosenmatrix]

My local club had a very heated discussion when we were installing a new course. The issue was that we were ordering Veteran baskets, and the color options were red, white, or blue. We had decided on red, however it was brought to our attention that a red band with a green background (foliage) would be an issue for red/green colorblind disc golfers. I mean how could they even know there was an effin basket there??????? Important to note, there were no colorblind disc golfers present during the discussion, and we were replacing mach 2 baskets that are gray... only gray.

We now have blue baskets, and a color blind disc golfer in the club. When asked if red would have been a problem for him, he responded "I am not blind, if there is a stop sign in front of a tree, I dont just blast through it all confused because I can't see anything."

I guess my point is, that a colorblind disc golfer can still see. I can't see exactly where a line is from 400' away painted on grass regardless of color. I have pretty good vision, but if I didn't and If I think I throw OB, I still walk up to the spot and see if it is OB, just like I assume someone who has trouble distinguishing between red green blue orange or white would.

 

[Moose33]

My dad is terribly colorblind and he could see that there is a line, just couldn't tell you that color. He would probably guess red since it's a common paint color but it would look grey or brown.

Sideways mounted traffic lights are a real adventure for him.

Pink and blue contrast the most to him so those are good colors, but Chuck is right that the gesturing is most useful at a distance.

 

[SD86]

For what it's worth, at Masters Worlds this year (at Smugglers Notch) where OB was determined by stakes with no physical line between them, spotters were instructed not to make calls on discs close enough to need a group decision. To signify that, they were told to hold up their red and green flags in a "X" pattern, as in, "I can't decide which flag to show". More than one player got a bit confused by that because of the signals you suggest.

Yes I've seen where that was done; and yes, that is more confusing that simple safe or OB signals. So clarify and standardize the signals to eliminate the confusion completely.

Like lines said, the colorblind player can ask one of the other players or his/her caddy (if available) for clarification, and they'll find out if the disc is OB or not when they get to it. This really isn't THAT big a problem in disc golf, is it?

 

[JC17393]

Like lines said, the colorblind player can ask one of the other players or his/her caddy (if available) for clarification, and they'll find out if the disc is OB or not when they get to it. This really isn't THAT big a problem in disc golf, is it?

No, it isn't. Spotters signaling in or out is a luxury, not a necessity in the game. The only situation where it is truly beneficial is on holes where re-throwing or proceeding to a drop zone is required, and a signal from a spotter can save a bunch of walking. Hole 16 at the European Open this past weekend is a good example.

 

[SD86]

No, it isn't. Spotters signaling in or out is a luxury, not a necessity in the game. The only situation where it is truly beneficial is on holes where re-throwing or proceeding to a drop zone is required, and a signal from a spotter can save a bunch of walking. Hole 16 at the European Open this past weekend is a good example.

I agree. So like I said, standardize the signals. Instead of crossing flags to denote "I don't know for sure", have them make the arms-out shrug signals. Don't use the same signal for two different situations.

As an analogous example: when I was in the Army, we had issues with using the same signals for different meanings. The worst was Grenada in 1983 or thereabouts, when the Army called for Naval gunfire. The Army gave the coordinates they wanted blasted and then their own position, as is standard with Artillery (I was in the Field Artillery); the Navy did it the other way, and the result was that the Navy fired upon the Army positions instead of the intended target. That led to a standardized communications system across all the military called JINTACS (sp?). Yes, this DG issue is nowhere nearly as important as that; just an example of the need to get everyone on the same page.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

A disc golfing friend of mine that R/G color blind says yellow shows up against green way better than reds and oranges... hence he bags a lot of yellow discs.

I'd think dayglow yellow flags would be the easiest to spot across all players involved.