Should ams receive payouts?

[smyith]

I like seeing a flat but deep payout in the lower am divisions, rather than huge rewards for doing well in novice, rec or intermediate. I don't have a strong opinion one way or the other in advanced or open, I'm ok with the flat payout or a top heavy payout that doesn't go as deep in those uncapped divisions.

that makes great sense too.

 

[Dave242]

I am not arguing at all with your perspective....just speculating on and chewing over how pre-formed expectations plays into this all. I may well be off base on my thoughts. But, your perspective seems different from several specific examples David Sauls put forth.

i am not sure what you mean by this.

I was talking about this post where DS gave specific examples of players choosing quality courses over big payouts (your feedback was that the majority of players in your experience would chose big payout on a lousy course over small payout of great course).

Probably the 2nd, at least around here.

For years Columbia was running two 2-day B-tiers a year. In March, exclusively at Earlewood Park, we'd fill to 100 in hours, sometimes minutes. In October, a crosstown with Earlewood and the lower-rated Owens Field, we'd struggle to 50.

Ashe County, a very highly-rated course in the N.C. mountains, ran a trophy-only event that filled. $25 entry, dri-fit players pack, barbeque lunch. On a course at least 2 hours from any significantly sized disc golf population. Yet it pre-filled. (In recent years I believe they've converted to a standard payout and are still filling. It just shows that it's possible).

For years Charleston filled on their annual temporary course at Hampton Park (My rating: 5.0), with a trophy-only event and, again, about a $25 entry. It filled, even when the nearest permanent course was 100 miles away. (It, too, has gone to standard payout).

Anecdotal evidence that the course matters more than the payout. But if the courses are closer to even, the payout will win out.

Also, anecdotal evidence that players will still clamor for payouts, and probably win out.

*

At Stoney Hill we've run a standard 2-day C-tier in the Spring, and a 1-day fundraiser in the fall. In the fundraiser we had no players pack, and very modest payouts for pros & ams (half the entry went to charity). The charity event has drawn as well as the standard.

Crooked Creek runs 2 standard events a year. They also used to run 1 charity fundraiser, low entry, trophy only. The latter had the highest attendance.

None of which proves anything, except perhaps that there are circumstances where trophy-only will work, on a good or great course.

 

[bnbanbury]

why should you get anything for a mediocre performance? paying out that far is like telling your kid "good job kido you got a D on your paper, have a cookie."

this is coming from someone that hardly cashes playing ADV. and I don't think that there are baggers in our system, especially in our open divisions.

this is going to be harsh but its a bit of honesty. those people who cry bagger and see begging as some kind of issue are just jealous or upset that it is not themselves in that position. whether or not they consciously realize it is meaningless. I come from a sports background if you are not in the Top 3 then you lost, not that the people who beat you bagged down to win, they bested you on that day. truly and honestly ask yourself why you have an issue with bagging, and don't kid yourself into taking some noble position.

Well my comment was coming from a 960 rated am who would often get the benefit of the inflated payouts you mention and is often the subject of the bagger chants. I'm a middling disc golfer. why should i have stacks of plastic heaped on me when really, i'm not that great a disc golfer? If payouts are part of the tournament i would rather as many ams get something out of it as possible.

 

[chrishysell]

Well my comment was coming from a 960 rated am who would often get the benefit of the inflated payouts you mention and is often the subject of the bagger chants. I'm a middling disc golfer. why should i have stacks of plastic heaped on me when really, i'm not that great a disc golfer? If payouts are part of the tournament i would rather as many ams get something out of it as possible.

Middling? Don't sell yourself short and complaining about rounds that beat everyone in attendance is annoying



http://www.pdga.com/tournament_results/101063

 

[smyith]

Middling? Don't sell yourself short and complaining about rounds that beat everyone in attendance is annoying



http://www.pdga.com/tournament_results/101063

i wouldn't consider a 960 MA1 player to be middling either. especially since the pDGA officially considers the step-up point to be 970*.


*970 is the cut off for pros playing down.

 

[bnbanbury]

Thanks Chris, I learned from the best (complaining and playing).

 

[Three Putt]

I like seeing a flat but deep payout in the lower am divisions, rather than huge rewards for doing well in novice, rec or intermediate. I don't have a strong opinion one way or the other in advanced or open, I'm ok with the flat payout or a top heavy payout that doesn't go as deep in those uncapped divisions.

In reality, deep payouts are a Pro thing. You pay out deep so more people can afford to keep on playing in the next event.

Am payouts generally are 1-2-3. Am's are supposed to be playing for the experience, and that is what you sell. You don't bribe people to play Am. When you think you need to reward somebody for finishing in the middle of Rec to get him to come back, you are focused on the wrong thing.

Disc golf tournaments have been focused on the wrong thing for a long, long time. When you read a tournament flyer, it's all about payout and all the stuff they are going to give you. By comparison, there is very little about the experience. We are selling payout. It should come as no surprise that we have attracted a lot of players that expect a big fat payout when that was what we used to lure them in.

 

[mashnut]

In reality, deep payouts are a Pro thing. You pay out deep so more people can afford to keep on playing in the next event.

Am payouts generally are 1-2-3. Am's are supposed to be playing for the experience, and that is what you sell. You don't bribe people to play Am. When you think you need to reward somebody for finishing in the middle of Rec to get him to come back, you are focused on the wrong thing.

Disc golf tournaments have been focused on the wrong thing for a long, long time. When you read a tournament flyer, it's all about payout and all the stuff they are going to give you. By comparison, there is very little about the experience. We are selling payout. It should come as no surprise that we have attracted a lot of players that expect a big fat payout when that was what we used to lure them in.

And I'm totally fine with that, I've said before that trophy only for ams wouldn't bother me a bit. Under the current system where am payouts are expected though, I'd rather see it spread out than reward the person whose rating is lagging the furthest behind their current performance since those rapidly improving players are often who wins those lower divisions.

 

[bnbanbury]

And I'm totally fine with that, I've said before that trophy only for ams wouldn't bother me a bit. Under the current system where am payouts are expected though, I'd rather see it spread out than reward the person whose rating is lagging the furthest behind their current performance since those rapidly improving players are often who wins those lower divisions.

:thmbup: exactly how i feel about it

 

[ejvogie]

...Am payouts generally are 1-2-3...

In an unsanctioned, maybe. Otherwise they're still following the 33 to 50% payout model.

 

[tampora]

This poll is missing the most obvious of options. The only choices for payouts are player pack, or, player pack and coupons? One of the choices should be an ACTUAL payout since this is what the title of the thread is questioning.

 

[NOStheBOSS]

This poll is missing the most obvious of options. The only choices for payouts are player pack, or, player pack and coupons? One of the choices should be an ACTUAL payout since this is what the title of the thread is questioning.

Then you wouldn't be an am, the options are fine

 

[tampora]

Then change the thread title to something appropriate. Coupons are not a "payout" by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[tampora]

Thanks for your hard 40 hrs of work this week, employee #2521. Instead of your usual paycheck, we're going to give you an equivalent amount in coupons which are only good at one particular company...

Coupons are not pay.

Didn't they write a song about this called 16 Tons?

 

[NOStheBOSS]

Thanks for your hard 40 hrs of work this week, employee #2521. Instead of your usual paycheck, we're going to give you an equivalent amount in coupons which are only good at one particular company...

Coupons are not pay.

Didn't they write a song about this called 16 Tons?

Unbelievable.

What do you call a person that works 40 hours a week for a paycheck? A PROFESSIONAL. NOT an amateur. What a stupid analogy

 

[tampora]

Then you wouldn't be an am, the options are fine

Besides, the OP never even mentioned the PDGA, which is the only place where a payout (read: cash) can affect your status.

 

[tampora]

The analogy is that coupons do not equal pay.

 

[TheShizz]

The analogy is that coupons do not equal pay.

You are taking the "pay" in payout too literally. Would you prefer it be called prize?

 

[tampora]

You are taking the "pay" in payout too literally. Would you prefer it be called prize?

Yes.

 

[TheShizz]

Yes.

So you do understand the context of the thread title! Nice troll :clap: